godrulz Posted September 16, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Introductory Greek grammar: The present tense indeed implies an ongoing process. ... "I am believing and continue to believe..." (I am coughing) The past imperfect tense would imply an action begun in the past and still continuing. (I was coughing). The aorist past tense is punctiliar...e.g. I coughed (once, but I do not continue to cough). Then there is perfect, pluperfect, subjunctive, etc...but you get the idea. You need a tool like a lexicon and interlinear to know what tense is used (the endings change on the root word). It does give an inspired nuance to the exact intended meaning of the verse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted September 16, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2003 We are in agreement above E4S, So then, instead of preachers preaching the message of OSAS or the other way, wouldn't it just be mighty fine to preach: REPENT! Sin is destruction for us! In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted September 16, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2003 I'm really not trying to be facetious here. What was Jesus' first sermon? Anybody know? Take a look at Matt. 4:17. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted September 16, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2003 How bout the disciples first sermon? Mark 6:12 In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted September 16, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2003 Acts 17:29Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising. 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, Ok, I'll quit now. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagz4Christ Posted September 16, 2003 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 511 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1975 Share Posted September 16, 2003 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted September 17, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2003 If it is offensive to call to the table someones claim to Christianity, it should then also be an offense to the TRUE believer that someone living in utter sin, not showing signs of perseverence or dedication to the Lord Jesus call himself or herself a Christian. They do nothing but defile the cross and make it of no value to themselves. BUT if they are shown the error of their ways, then they have the opprotunity to come to the throne of God in TRUTH this time, instead of in a sense of getting something for nothing, and ask forgiveness, and for the first time, ask Jesus into their heart and live in the ETERNALLY SECURE state and confidence that is the TRUE believers. Yes, exactly what I said above. You just had more time! Wonderful post Sagz, ALL of it! In His love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanakila Posted September 17, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 400 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2003 I was saved in a Baptist church, baptised in one, and have been a member of one since (different ones mind you). All this is to say I was entrenched in the doctrine of eternal security. I didn't leave this doctrine easily and am not a full arminian. I don't believe that if you commit adultery as a Christian and continue to live in sin, that you lose your salvation. Why a Christian would do this is hard for us trying to live righteously to understand, but it happens all the time. But, I witness to atheists who used to be Christians most everyday online, and I am telling you that they lost it. Some may not have been real Christians in the first place, I don't doubt. But, many of them used to go to churches just like yours and mine. They started doubting, and fed those doubts with a bunch of skeptical stuff, either from websites or books they have read. A book that makes many lose their faith is an old one called: The Age Of Reason by Thomas Paine. Satan has used this book as well as some others in amazing ways, to get Christians to stop believing. Some of you will say well if it was real they will come back, they are just backsliding, but I beg to differ with you. They no longer believe and act like the Apostle Paul in trying to kill other Christians faith, (through reason instead, of threats). These people actively post on message boards for many reasons. Some aren't trying to kill Christians faith, but are just after the argument, for arguments sake. But, they used to be Christians, and now they aren't. Like the scripture in Hebrews, and other ones mentioned in this thread mention. I challenge them that they haven't examined all the information out there and that they should keep searching, but many are set in their new found faith of atheism. ( I know its not a faith according to them) But they are trusting their own reasoning power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted September 17, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I agree with the above post, but it could be criticized as anecdotal. The rest of the Scriptural posts establish conditional security (there are many IF...THEN conditions in Scripture related to salvation...conditional sentences...IF you do not...then...) Salvation is not merely a one time legal transaction or a magic formula to say a sinner's prayer as life insurance. Salvation is a relationship with God (among other things) that must be entered into based on God's CONDITIONS (repentance and faith). The relationship must be entered into voluntarily to be a love relationship and then MAINTAINED (perseverance/continuance) or there is no longer relationship/salvation. Unconditional eternal security needs propping up with doctrines like a LIMITED atonement (contradicts God's unlimited atonement and power to save all who will come to Him). It is based on a false assumption that reduces salvation to being all of God (one party) and a mere Commercial Transaction (misunderstood theory of the atonement), rather that relational like God intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted September 17, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2003 But again I ask, why do we not want to focus on the outcome of sin? We only want to acknowledge salvation, but not the results of sin? I am really struggling with the fact that the CHURCH AS A WHOLE, does not talk about the consequences of sin anymore. The pastors will not speak of ongoing sin, we are not even willing to admit that the practice of ongoing sin, will keep us from the Kingdom of God? Why? Don't the Scriptures state the obvious? If salvation gets us into heaven, through Jesus Christ, does sin keep us out? In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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