Blasphemy Of The Holy Spirit

[Arthur Durnan]

Permit this observer to articulate other than (sometimes in various postings on this matter) vague alarums. There is no such thing in Holy Writ as "unknown tongues." The word is absent in the Greek in 1 Corinthians. All biblical languages are known, understood, national dialects. Even heaven's angels, when they spoke, did so in language understood by the listeners. The Holy Bible doesn't know a "heavenly gibberish". Why all the confusion on a fairly obvious issue? Hardly a need to nurse it into a galloping paralysis, yes?

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[EricH]

So you see Mr. Durnan, it is a fairly obvious issue.

Actually this is an issue that has been intensely debated by theologians for years. If it was obvious, we would all agree.

[delivered]

Grace to you,

May I steer this discussion in another direction for a moment?

Lets look at the High Office of the Holy Spirit in the Godhead.

His main role is to Reveal Jesus Christ to the comfortless.

Joh

Edited March 29, 2006 by delivered

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings,

This is what the Lord has taught me about speaking in tongues - or various languages:

1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Here Paul is making a distinction between languages spoken by men and the language of angels. I put a lot of thought and prayer into this because it seemed to me at the time that God, through His angels spoke in the language of the men to which He addressed. It seemed to me that the angels spoke in any or all of the languages of men. Now this is not unreasonable, but scripture doesn't seem to support that. I am sure all the angels know all the languages, but it is not necessary.

Consider:

Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

We find this situation at Pentecost. Numerous people from many different nations and languages were present. We can reasonably assume that ALL the Apostles were there as well, but the numbers from the nations far outnumbered them. Can you imagine the cacaphony that would have existed if all the Apostles were speaking in the languages of the men present? But I want to offer you something different to think about. Look again at the above verse. It says: "...every man HEARD them speak in his own language." HEARD is the key word to understanding what was going on here. Let's look what Jesus says:

Luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

Now what is meant by this? Well, we find an interesting repeated statement in the book of Revelation:

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

Seven times to Seven churches the Lord repeats this statement. This is NOT talking about what we hear with our physical ears, but what we hear with our "spiritual" ears. And so this is what Jesus also meant in Luke.

Okay, now we have HEARING as the determining factor to understanding what God is saying. If we just listen to Him with our PHYSICAL ears, we are missing out what the SPIRIT is saying to the churches. Many at Pentecost only heard WITH THEIR PHYSICAL EARS.

Now let's consider Adam. What language do you think he was speaking? You have to realize that this is the language spoken up to the story of the Tower of Babel and the confusion of tongues. I call Adam's language "Adam speak" or "God speak" whichever you prefer, but it probably should be referred to as "God speak", since it was God who gave Adam the language and the understanding with which to communicate with him:

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

This may be the first time that Eve HEARD God for herself. God always spoke with Adam, for it is the man's place "to teach the woman". In any case, there was no doubt in their minds that God was not pleased with them.

So let me say this, just to through it out there for your consideration, for this is my experience, but I believe it is supported by the scriptures. God is Spirit. He speaks in Spiritual Words. He SPEAKS TO OUR SPIRIT. And for a subjective teaching on this. I personally have heard the Word of God speak to my spirit. When He SPEAKS, there is absolute clarity. There is NO confusion as with men's languages. We listen for a lot of things when a person speaks, his articulation, his gestures, his truthfulness, his veracity, his integrity, and then we "take what they say with a grain of salt" until what was said is proven to be fact. Well, God does not speak that way. THERE IS NOT CONFUSION. I must reiterate that with intensity so that you too may understand and HEAR what the SPIRIT IS SAYING TO THE CHURCH.

This language (God Speak) is also the "tongues of angels". They need NOT speak in a particular MAN'S language for THEIR language was NOT confused, but only MAN'S LANGUAGE WAS CONFUSED.

Need I say more? Paul was absolutely correct when He said there were TWO languages - one of angels and one of men. God and the angels DO NOT need to speak in men's languages because when they speak, FOR THOSE THAT HAVE EARS TO HEAR, God gives understanding of HIS LANGUAGE (God Speak - or "tongues of angels").

I would not suggest you take my word for this. Do a diligent search of the scriptures and find out for yourself.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[delivered]

Delivered, since you decided to re-post that, what exactly does that post mean to you? What I am asking is what is your interpretation of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

I BELIEVE TO BLASPHEME MEANS A PERSON WOULD BE IN A STATE OF WILLFUL, DETERMINED OPPOSITION TO GOD; THAT NO EFFORTS WOULD AVAIL IN LEADING THEM TO REPENTANCE; DENYING AND NOT RECEIVING THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT; NOT TAKING HEED TO THE PROMPTINGS OF THE SPIRIT'S CORRECTIONS, TEACHINGS, COMFORT -- ALL OF THE ATTRIBUTES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Butero,

While I don't agree with your conclusions, I must say that was a very well thought out opinion you came up with. I agree with you that God does speak in a very clear manner directly to your spirit, for I have experienced that a few times in my life. The problem here is that all the situations where someone spoke in tongues were not like the one in Acts 2. For instance in Acts 19, there were a group of believers that were saved by faith in Christ through the preaching of John the Baptist. The problem was, they had not yet received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. They received the Holy Ghost Bapstism after Paul laid his hands upon them in verse 6, "and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Why the need to point out "they spake in tongues" if the tongues were plain speech? The only reason one would point this out was there was something significant about it, something that showed they had received the promise of the Father. Since there was no mention of Paul speaking in tongues to these believers when he met them, there is no reason to believe they were of a foreign language, as was the case with many in the crowd found in Acts chapter 2.

I am not sure I understand your point here. Unless we receive the Holy Spirit, HOW can we understand what God is saying?

Another thing to consider is the fact that when the gift of tongues is manifest in the church, to be in order we are told their must be an interpreter. Why would one need an interpreter for a language everyone in the congregation could already understand? According to your explanation, the people in Acts 2 could understand in their own language because it was God speaking to their spirit. This wouldn't work with the gift of tongues.

Do you find the following verse interesting:

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

What good does it do the church, if tongues are spoken and no one understands? Are they not for a sign to the unbeliever? Someone may have one gift, another will have yet another gift. Some prophesy, others interpret. The interpreters do the work of giving understanding and meaning to the UNBELIEVERS for whom it is a SIGN that God is among them.

It is obvious to me you have sought for an answer to this question, because your response was different than the same old hash that everyone else has been repeating that is readily found in commentaries to dispute the Pentecostal experience, but I still don't believe it matches up with the Bible.

As I stressed before, He who has an ear, let him hear what the SPIRIT is saying to the church.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Butero,

Obviously Paul had the Holy Spirit, so why did he have to wait till those he prayed for received the same Holy Spirit to understand what God was saying? The other believers were Christians, because they accepted John's teachings that Jesus was the Christ, but they hadn't received the Holy Ghost Baptism of yet. If they didn't have the Spirit, according to your logic, how did they understand what God was trying to tell them through the Apostle Paul? This makes no sense to me, either way you turn it around.

Consider what is meant by these two verses:

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

So is the mental exercise of "believing" enough for salvation? What does Jesus say:

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

and Paul:

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

again:

Jesus:

Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

and Paul:

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

To conclude - one must not only BELIEVE, but he/she must be BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT OF GOD. Believing alone is insufficient for salvation - ask any demon.

In the case of the gift of tongues, a message is given out in a language unknown to the congregation. Then to be in order, someone must interpret it in their language. If nobody steps forward, the one that spoke the message must give the interpretation. Seeing someone speaking in a language foreign to the one speaking is indeed a sign something is going on, especially to a non-believer. Hearing the interpretation given edifies those who already believe. I have seen this gift in operation many times.

Consider:

1 Cor 14:27-28 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

I think you misquoted the scriptures.

We are in agreement on your last statement. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the church. The question is only on how he is speaking to the church.

I am happy to know that we can find agreement.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[SwordFish]

horizoneast,

some of the things you have said is a real shame to think that our saviour went to the cross and suffered the awful agony so we could by saved by faith and born of his spirit. and he went away from this earth so that the comforter would come down to us in the presence of his spirit. well you may not like alot of things people do nor agree with them but to fight so over the precious spirit of God well is a real shame in my opinion because jesus paid an awful price so that we could have it.

swordfish

[SwordFish]

horizoneast,

some of the things you have said is a real shame to think that our saviour went to the cross and suffered the awful agony so we could by saved by faith and born of his spirit. and he went away from this earth so that the comforter would come down to us in the presence of his spirit. well you may not like alot of things people do nor agree with them but to fight so over the precious spirit of God well is a real shame in my opinion because jesus paid an awful price so that we could have it.

swordfish

Swordfish

Edited March 31, 2006 by SwordFish

[SwordFish]

horizoneast,

some of the things you have said is a real shame to think that our saviour went to the cross and suffered the awful agony so we could by saved by faith and born of his spirit. and he went away from this earth so that the comforter would come down to us in the presence of his spirit. well you may not like alot of things people do nor agree with them but to fight so over the precious spirit of God well is a real shame in my opinion because jesus paid an awful price so that we could have it.

swordfish

Swordfish