SwordFish

The Word teaches it was Eve who was decieved and believed Satan simply because she had been decieved by Satan tricking her into eating the fruit. Eve would not have eaten the fruit on her own thus Satan had to trick and decieve Eve into eating the fruit. Eve did not choose Satan over God for had she not be decieved being the weaker vessel then she would have had no hinderance in resisting Satan but she was decieved and tricked. For Adam was not decieved but he flat out rebelled against God as it tells us in.......................... 1 Timothy 2:13-14--"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was Not Decieved, but the woman being decieved was was in the transgression." This verse tells us up front Adam was "Not Decieved but it was the woman who was decieved instead." Thus why the woman should not be in charge and ursurping his authority for this is outright rebellion against God to do so as she is the weaker vessel and is commanded to be in silence with all subjection 1 Timothy 2:11-14 sf

Just would like to say that it was the women that was decieved as Satan cahe me to her and tricked her to eat the forbidden fruit but on the other hand Adam was not decieved nor tricked by Satan only the woman was decieved. Man on the other hand just staightout rebelled against God not being decieved but Adam broke the law he was given not to eat of the forbidden tree. So Adam was without excuse and was not decieved thus having no excuse he just once again flat out rebelled against God. It could have been because he wanted what Eve had as her eyes had been opened by Satan's lies but Adam's eyes were still closed. I believe that men are not decieved they just outright rebell against the laws of God. The Word does not teach that men were deceived but the Word teaches it was the women who was decieved or tricked. The Word also tells us that Adam was first form then woman. Because of what happened in the garden and the curses were placed on the ground, on the serpent, also the man and the woman. Part of the curses mentioned was that the man would rule over the women. This I'm sure will be accepted well. sf

What this shows is that women Should Not Be In Charge Because They Were To Easily Decieved.... sf

'LadyC' yes this is funny sf

sounds like they had a "rip" roaring time sf

good thread and insight oc it sure made me take inventory of my own life as i read through the things you had to say the part at the end of your study about being in the valley of decision at this time really does hold true swordfish

i had went to this play several years back and it had a scene in it where Jesus appeared after he had risen from the tomb as there was white smoke and all and it was a dramatic scence in light of what i know personally of the gospel account when i read scriptures as my mind pictures the incredibleness of that great event. but i was let down in my spirit when i saw the young man who was portraying Jesus as he had long hair like a girl and when i saw that i thought in my mind Jesus (the actor) needs to cut his hair. i just thought is was wrong for a young man today to portray Jesus to have long hair when the word says it is a shame for a man to have long hair. the young man portraying Jesus having short hair would not have taken anything whatsoever away from the impact of the scene and would have given males in the audience a good image of males having short hair today instead of promoting the idea that they should look like women and it is okay when it is not. so the play left a negative on me in that regards in light of 1 corinthians 11 teachings. SwordFish

i never saw the movie jesus christ superstar but heard of it and what i heard was not good. i did see the movie passion of the christ. and i thought it was a very powerful movie as there seemed to be a holy huss that came over the audience in reverence to what christ came and did for us on the cross. people in the theater were in tears at the impact of it. i personally thought that there was to much emphasis being put on mary the mother of Jesus as that stood to reason as Mel is a catholic but the truth that the jews rejected the messiah and put christ to death on the cross was true to the bible. there was alot that imagination put into the movie but that stands to reason on any movie being made. but over all it was a very powerful movie that changed hearts i believe. SwordFish

yes, there is such a thing as a soul mate and that is the person in whom the lord has chosen for you. yes, there is true love and it is when we give ourselves whole heartedly to the person in whom the lord has chosen for us as a mate. if one chooses their own mate in life it will more than likely be someone that is around your area as there is nothing mysterious about men and women getting together it just happens as it is a natural thing and one eventually does chose one in whom they are drawn unto from those in whom they are around. but if you allow the lord to choose your mate for you and you wait on the lord then you don't have to worry over things like did i miss or overlook the right one you will know as the lord will show you and you should ask him to show you in prayer and trust him to do that for you. i think the yearning one has on the inside for intimacy and companionship and for a family is the big give away that we are to be married and not single. for the lord said he would give us the desires of our heart so keep telling him your desires in this area. the story of isaac and rebekah in the book of Genesis in how they got together is a good read for you as God had a specific woman chosen for isaac and it was neat story showing how that particular women just happened to come out to the well and do what abraham's servant had prayed about to the lord. one can choose their own mate in this life but it is so much better to let the lord chose for us in his time for he knows us like no other person and knows the needs of our hearts and will match you up so much better with a mate that is right for you than what we ourselves can pick out of the crowd fishing for ourselves. trust in the lord and share your feelings with him and desires and for him to show you so you will know. SwordFish

defiantly a fronlet a keeper SwordFish

he was fullfilling prophecy the sign of Jonah three days and three nights in the heart of the earth and he would rise again and that temple shall not be destroyed as he was speaking of his body and the veil of the temple was rent from bottom to top that took them forty years to build. SwordFish

i agree with your thoughts here i can't even imagine being in paradise held captive by satan by lock and key in the lower parts of the earth and having Jesus the Savior of the world show up and preach to you for three days i wonder what those sermons was down under. then to be let loose by Jesus himself as Jesus triumped over satan taking back possession of paradise having all authority where the righteous dead were being held in captivity. and to come out of there with Jesus what a time they must have had. talk about having church. but satan can no longer ever again hold our spirits in prison under lock and key in the lower parts of the earth but upon death we saints enter into the glorious precious of the Lord immediately as you have so stated. SwordFish

i am defiantly pre-trib in belief. no matter what one calls the event that is going on in 1 thess chp. 4 i believe in that chapter and what is written in that chapter. the chapter talks about living to please God in verses 1-12 then it talks about the sudden coming of the Lord in verses 13-18. so i will not deny the holy scripture and just dismiss scripture based on a particular word not being found. because the word still stands as it foretells of this event recorded in this chapter. if one does not believe in the scriptures found in 1 thess 4:13-18 then they don't believe that they will be reunited with their loved ones again that have died and gone on before them by way of the grave. because this reuniting will only be happening at this glorious event recorded in these verses. for the lord will descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of the archangel with a trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first. then we which are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. wherefore comfort one another with these words. the righteous dead shall rise for our believing loved ones that have died by way of the grave they will rise or be resurrected first. then the saints who are still alive on the earth at this event will be caught up in the air in the clouds with our loved ones who died before us and we will be with the Lord forever. apostle paul said in verse 13 i would not have you ignorant brethren of this very thing. why would paul say that, because the lord wanted us to know what has happened and will happen to our loved ones that have gone on before us. in order that we at their passing would be comforted and know for certain we will see them again at this event this family reunion in the air that will take place. i have always believed that when the unbelievers in this world looses a loved one they grieve harder than christians do because they have no comfort and no hope of seeing their loved ones again as these promises are only to believers. the events in revelation be mid and post trib views no where in scripture entails the events that are going on in 1 thessalians 4 the shout, the voice of the archangel, the trump of God and nowhere in those decriptions in revelation describes where the dead "IN CHRIST" rise first and those that are believers that are still alive and remain are caught up after them and are joined with them in the air to meet the lord and both the resurrected saints and those that were yet alive will forever be with the Lord. it teaches in 1 john 3:1-2 about the great love God bestowed on us by calling us sons of God and how the world can't just look at us and see that we are the children of God. cause you can't tell by looking at us we look like all the other people in the world. but one day the world will know we are the sons of God because we are going to be made manifest or made known that we are the sons of God. and it will be known at the events in 1 thessalonians 4:13-18. but right now it does not appear what we shall be but we know when our Lord does appear we are going to be like him as we shall see him as he is. meaning when the Lord is manifested or made known to the world at his coming in the air the sons or believers will also be manifested and known to the world as believers who have died in Christ and those who are still alive on this earth will be taken up into the clouds in the air. 1 corinthians 15:52 in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed 1 corinthians 15:51 behold i show you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shall be "changed" i just believe the scriptures for what they say and teach describing this event. SwordFish

this is really not hard at all in my thinking towards the matter. because if the person is a homosexual before their conversion then they should have already turned from their sins and been forgiven as if they never done it and the church should accept such a person who has turned from their past sins. according to 1 cor 6:11 as such were some of you but ye are washed but ye are sanctified but ye are justified in the name of the lord Jesus and by the spirit of our God. So if one has had a conversion they have been washed by the blood they have been sanctified made clean and holy by the blood and they have been justified as if they have never done the sins in their past in the name of the lord Jesus and by the spirit of our God. this is for those who were homosexuals prior to salvation who have turned and repented then added to the church they should be viewed as a christian and saint of God as they no longer are a homosexual and have turned from the lifestyle. as far as those who have been a christian in the church for them to turn from the faith and begin to practice this type of lifestyle should be put out of the church for sexual immorality. living in this type of a lifestyle is a contradiction of the christian faith. after conversion this lifestyle should never be condoned or tolerated in the christian church. SwordFish

the body without the spirit is dead. the body returns back to the dust of the ground from whence it came Gen 3:19. the body will decay or rot in the ground and the spirit cannot dwell in a body within that state for God breathed into the nostrils of Adam and he became a living soul. the spirit of man cannot live within a body that is decaying as the soul will leave this earthly body at the time of death and return to God who gave it to us. Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was and the "spirit" shall return unto God who gave it." (now that is pretty plain) seeing that there is no death in heaven it stands to reason............right the spirit is the life that lived in this earthly body and when that life leaves this earthly body that life returns back to God who gave it while the body returns to the dust of the ground. (to cover your cleverly wording above that the spirit is awake in heaven. Not just in heaven, but awake in heaven. i will also ask the same from you to prove scripturally that they are dead in heaven or in the grave) Ecclesiastes 3:16-22 it tells us in this passage that we are just like the beasts we were formed from the dust of the earth same as them in how that all the beasts have all one breath same as man that God gave in the beginning this is in verse 18 to 21 in this text. 18-21 "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men befalleth beasts even one thing befalleth them as the one dieth so dieth the other yea they have all one breath so that a man hath no preeminece above a beast for all is vanity. All go unto one place all are of the dust and all turn to dust again Who knoweth the "spirit" of man that "goeth upward" and the "spirit" of the beast that "goeth downward" to the earth." the text here clearly shows that the body goes to dust but the spirit of man goeth upward to God. as man is body soul and spirit. it says that the spirit of the beast goeth downward to the earth the exact opposite of man. this is because the animals only have body and spirits they do not possess a soul as mankind does so their body like ours goes back to the dust from which it was formed. and the spirits of the animals being the life that was in their bodies goes back to God from whence it came. as it says "all go unto one place the body to the ground the life of the flesh returns to God. Job 34:14,15 "If he set his heart upon man if he "gather unto himself" his "spirit" and his "breath" All flesh shall perish together and man shall turn again unto dust." again scriptures shows when God gathers unto "himself" the spirit and soul or breath of man then the flesh being our bodies that God's own spirit and breath dwells in shall perish without it and our flesh will return to dust once again but the life of the body will return to God from whence it came. as there is no death in God's abode only life as he is the giver and sustainer of all life. so if God takes our lives from us back to himself then we are yet alive in his presence but our flesh will return to the dust of the ground until the ressurrection of the body when our spirits and souls will be reuntited with our bodies once again. well i doubt this will be enough for you but it is all biblically there within the word. maybe we should agree to disagree.

perhaps this scripture will speak for the children of both the believers as well as the non-believers 1 Corinthians 7:14 latter part of verse says, "else were your children unclean but now are they holy." the children of believers are holy and will go to heaven as they are under the covering of their parents. the children of the unbelievers are not holy and will not go to heaven and the unbelieving parents will be responsible for their souls. none of us are innocent before God. scripture teaches we are all guilty before God Revelation 20:14,15

seems to me if scriptures says in Matt. 19:7,8 that moses commanded to give a writing of divorcement. then it would also stand to reason their must have been a legal binding document they had at the time of marriage back then. As the bill of divorcement would make it null and void. Like in Romans 7:1,2 it talks about being bound by the law showing us that there had to be a law which had dominion and rule over their marriage a law that governored their marriage or made it a binding contract between the two. 1 Cor. 7:39 A marriage is a blood covenant agreement that two people the man and the woman enter into with one another. the marriage covenant in writing, the legal document for the public is not in effect unless there is shedding of blood between the two parties this shedding of blood is shed when the two parties on their honeymoon night join together and the virginity is taken for it is sealed or brought into effect at that time between the two parties as their is shedding of blood in taking the virginity. and they are bound to one another in the eyes of God. and the covenant agreement remains intact until death. Heb. 9:16-20 a testament is a covenant a witness between two parties and is always brought into effect by shedding of blood. like it is when Christ had to die in order that the new covenant between God and man could be brought into effect because as long as he was still living the old covenant was still in effect that had been sealed with the blood of bulls and goats. any how it is food for thought for you on the matter. just stands to reason if their had to be a writing of divorcement granted then their had to be a legal binding document for the marriage as well that had dominion over them in the marriage.

At the second death they will be thrown in the lake of fire ________________________________________________________________________________ ________ No they wont be thrown in the lake of fire at the second death. What about innocent babies, dying at birth. What about children in India, and as grapeseed said, Islamists, Hindus, and other peoples easily fall into this category. Seemingly, through no fault of their own, they have not heard the good news. Millions who have lived and died in Tibet, central Australia, South America, what about all the millions of people who have died throughout history never having heard of Jesus Christ,or even God, at all? One needs to read these Scriptures and get a handle on them and try and understand what Paul is stating here. The fact is, God is no respector of persons. In other words, whether you were born a thousand years ago and never heard of Him or Jesus, He will judge you according to how you lived your life and obeyed your conscience. We can all decipher between good and evil in any century. "For there is no respect of persons with God (Romans 2:11). "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish with-out law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things CONTAINED IN THE LAW, these having NOT THE LAW, ARE A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES: Which shew the work of THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE also BEARING WITNESS, and their THOUGHTS the mean while EXCUSING ONE ANOTHER;)" (ROMANS 2:11-15). In other words; "God will deal with every one, including the heathen, who have never heard of the gospel. He will deal with them on the basis of the light they have recieved, and on the basis of obeying their own conscience" Haz. John 3:3

That's right, they did not satisfy me. Did you read my reply above? I'm still waiting for the answer to my final question: What does the word

At the second death they will be thrown in the lake of fire

you were right butero

True. So, if Jesus is the light of the world, and He said Let there be light, He is also the source of all light. Then one could conclude that the Sun is not the primary source of the light of the world...and we have electricity and fire, which produces and /or gives off light...??? Others, please, let's expound... [/quote It is the Word from the beginning that God the Father spoke everything into existence and that Word was with God from the very start. That Word that God spoke everything into existence with that we see visible or invisible is Jesus Christ. As the old song goes "Was Blind But Now I See" they that are blind cannot see afar off. But Christ is the light of men and has been from the beginning of time. when God spoke it was. We need the light of the sun in the natural but we need the light of Christ in our hearts so we can see spiritually by faith. And the sun that comes up every morning and goes down every evening does not nor can give light to our spirits within us. it is only the light of the world which is Jesus Christ that can give light to fallen man. As the whole world before Christ was in darkness in need of a Saviour since the fall in the garden. But God sent His only begotten Son into the world that the world through him might be saved

LOL It is pretty simple in my faith as I only have one High Priest in which to confess to for He ever liveth. People do not possess the power to forgive sins. God never gave nor invested that power to any human person for without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Christ is the only one who was given that power. SwordFish