Witchcraft

[Guest Gladiator4God]

Off topic question:

Why is it when there is an obvious mis-spelling in the title, a moderator doesn't fix it? It seems so simple.

Back on topic.

as a graduate of the public school system i for one am glad spelling perfect isnt required here

[amdntstr]

Well, since this topic is about witchcraft, I feel it is relevant to say a few things if only to give credibility to some of my posts. While I grew up in a christian home, I spent the better part of my late teens and early-mid twenties as a wiccan. There is no white or black magick (the k is used to differentiate it from sleight of hand) there is only the intent of the person.

Ahh. but there instead of black or white magick there is the left and right hand paths. There are HUGE differences between the two. Different teminology, but same meaning.

Wicca does have some similarities with Druidism, but it's hard to say exactly what some of those similarities are since very little is known about the druids. Especially with regard to thier religious practices. However, when we use the term pagan today, we refer to things like new age teachings, but the the term pagan (which actually originally means "country-dweller") was used to describe people who did not live in towns and thusly, did not know enough about the mainstream religions to consider themselves followers of it. When people saw them, they accused them of being a witch (a term grossly over used and misunderstood) since most of thier practices had to do with herbal remedies and other practices relying heavily on the bounty of the earth.

Actually as I understand it according to Gardner Wicca is an "old religion" and pre existed BEFORE christianity. That this is what true Garnerian witches believe. This being the logic, it has nothing to do with not knowing about these other religions, but rather holding on to the old.

As a pagan I know that wicca is a new religion made up by gardner and quite a bit was pieced together from others works.

I do agree with the last line. It all depends on whether or not there was any intent. Just like aromatheropy is ok for a christian, because there isn't any intent to it.

Anywayz, I feel I have some relevant knowledge with this subject having been involved in it and still exposed to it consistently. I have many friends and my wife (we are, however currently separated) who are either wiccan or pagan or both or other. One of the common reasons I have found for them not following christianity, is the fact that the biblical God is taught to be a male. Women were often looked on as property and there are verses clearly endorsing women as the weaker sex (1 peter 3:7 and yes, I know most will say it refers to physical strength). I know I myslef had the same issues. So that is often why I say that I can't stand it when people start quoting verse after verse at people. I returned because I had questions and fortunately there were people who were willing to answer those questions and treat me with respect and actually listen to what I had to say. They respected me and my right to believe as I choose. Thank God I came back, but it was not because of "fire, damnation and the one true way" evangelism. It was because of respect and understanding.

Ephesians 5 compares the relationship a husband and wife has to our relationship to Christ. Submitting to your husband does not equal us being "property". Everybody gets so upset over the submit that they seem to leave out the rest of the Word has to say.

Look at the difference between the men of the 40's and the men of today. They were much stronger then (I do not mean physically). It seems as if each passing generation the men are getting weaker. To tell you the honest truth, I was one of the women who swore that I would never be ruled by a man, I would never submit or give over control. Yes, I am a recovering control freak. But I found that I didn't respect a man who let me control everything as well after years of what seemed one crisis after another, I found my husband. He just turned 50 and he is of a generation where men were raised stronger than those in my generation. (I am in my late 30's) We fought the first few years like cats and dogs. I was convicted by the HS about my marriage and the relationship I have with my husband.

For me it came down to trust, I had to trust him. I am now an Ephesians 5 wife. Not much has changed in how the house is run and most of the decisions are still mine to make (He drives for a living and is only home 24 hours a week) but he took over some of the decisions (financial and such). To tell you the truth, it is nice for once to be able to lean on someone, to not have to be the one who has to worry about everything. I praise God that my husband is stronger than I am and that his shoulders are bigger.

I am married to an unbeliever. I married him before I gave my heart back to God. He married a pagan and ended up with a Christian. Because his ex did nothing but nag him, had his children telling him he was going to hell all of the time, and it being pushed in his face all of the time, he has a very low opinion of Christians. When I told him that I was going back to God, his two comments were:

1. Don't ask me to go to church and

2. Don't talk to me about it.

The bible is very clear on this and for good reason. It basically says that we should let our actions speak louder than our words.

1 Peter 3

1 In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,

2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.

3 Your adornment must not be merely external--braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses;

4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

I think that this is how we should be with any and all unbelievers. I have kept my promise to my husband and I have not brought it up, HE HAS!! This gave the opportunity to speak what God had laid on my heart.

This reminds me of a saying I remember from when I was little, don't hear it too much anymore, but I think that even though it is pretty corney it speaks the truth.

You can catch more bees with honey than vinegar.

[Guest silent_cry]

Actually as I understand it according to Gardner Wicca is an "old religion" and pre existed BEFORE christianity. That this is what true Garnerian witches believe. This being the logic, it has nothing to do with not knowing about these other religions, but rather holding on to the old.

As a pagan I know that wicca is a new religion made up by gardner and quite a bit was pieced together from others works

I don't think the reference to "the old religion" is specific to Gardnerian Wicca but to witchcraft and paganism in general. There is no "right way" within Wicca (each does as they prefer) so to even imply that there was a right way would be misleading. there were common practices that were passed down largely through families and Gardner may have formalized everything and modernized it, but I wouldn't really use the terms "made up".

Most christians today would consider the Malleus Maleficarum to be a non-christian text. It is not based on any kind of biblical standard, only hysteria, paranoia and, bluntly, made up "facts". Most christians will admit this. Thus, the reason your link was deleted. If anything, you should be thankful that it WAS considered a non-christian link!

[Oh No Melon]

Ahh. but there instead of black or white magick there is the left and right hand paths. There are HUGE differences between the two. Different teminology, but same meaning.

I thought the left and right hand paths were unique to Satanism.

[Guest Aperion]

How can you say that the Malleus Maleficarum is NOT considered a Christian text? It was sanctioned by THE MOST POWERFUL Christian of his day. It was printed and sold and read all over Europe and read by Christians, Catholic and Protestant alike. And it certainly does fall well into line with "Thou Shalt Not Suffer A Witch to Live."

And if you actually read it, you'd see that a lot of the ideologies have not changed.

[EricH]

How can you say that the Malleus Maleficarum is NOT considered a Christian text? It was sanctioned by THE MOST POWERFUL Christian of his day. It was printed and sold and read all over Europe and read by Christians, Catholic and Protestant alike. And it certainly does fall well into line with "Thou Shalt Not Suffer A Witch to Live."

And if you actually read it, you'd see that a lot of the ideologies have not changed.

It depends on what you mean by a "Christian Text". If you mean by that a text produced by someone claiming to be Christian, that is one thing. But the only truly Christian Text (that speaks with authority for all believers) is the Bible.

[secondeve]

So, basically, a Christian text is something written by a Christian who other Christians think has the right idea, as opposed to being written by a Christian whom other Christians disagree.

Isn't this the epitome of subjective classification?

[Azarel Star]

as long as the young up and coming new christians, know you are an atheist, they will treat your remarks with the contempt they deserve.

I think you said in one of your earlier posts, I can't remember which, you only came here to this board to show the different sides of atheism, or words to that effect, Well, eve. atheism has only one side, that concerns the christians on this board, and that side is, they are anti Christ. full stop.

Thank you for saying this brother. I'll never understand why "non-believers" and atheists insist on hanging around Christian websites. Aren't there other websites out there where these anti-Christs can gather? Why such a need to try to "prove" their points to us. In my opinion, far too much time and energy is spent in the "Outer Court" dancing around with pagans, much to Satan's delight. It is obvious that the love of Christ has not reached their hearts, and may not, so all we can do is pray for them and move on. No one will be argued into heaven brothers and sisters, so save your breath. Let these non-believers "debate" amongst themselves and don't give the enemy so much "air time" here on Worthy.

Blessings to you brothers and sisters

God's mercy to you unbelievers

in His service

-CC-

Azeral star,

We as Christians need to start realizing that our goal is to win souls for Christ...not turn them away...Eric I just ask that you tone the harshness down a little and learn to love more...we're all in this together...athiests don't know about GOD'S love because WE have not been doing our job...and also If you know that girl that would have an abortion, you as the acting Christian in her life should feel responsible enough to AT LEAST preach the word of GOD to her...if she does not accept, then it is out of your hands

Well that's all I need. Someone who has only been on the boards a couple of weeks and telling me I should tone my "harshness" down. I don't recall dicussing anything about a girl having an abortion, so I have not the remotest idea what you are talking about.. Please elucidate

Eric...

It doesn't matter how long I've been on this site, the question is how long have I been in Christ...

Now I quoted Crusader for Christ also from another thread....

Now this one statement should lay this whole "hanging with the sinners"theory down to rest.....

OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST WAS NOT FOUND IN THE TEMPLE WITH THE SADDUCEES OR THE PHARISEES, HE WAS ON THE STREETS WITH THE WHORES, LEPERS, MURDERERS, BLIND, POOR...ETC.

IN FACT HIS DISCIPLES INCLUDE, LIARS, MURDERERS, TAX COLLECTORS ETC. SO IF WE ARE TO BE CHRIST-LIKE, WE SHOULD ALSO "HANG WITH SINNERS"IN HOPES TO CONVERT THEM...EVEN THE MOST HARDENED ONES.

NOW IF YOU ARE NOT STRONG ENOUGH IN YOUR FAITH AND YOU FEEL AS IF THESE NONBELIEVERS CAN DIVERT YOU FROM YOUR PATH, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO GET PRAYED UP BEFORE EVEN ENTERING THE WEBSITE. BUT AS FOR ME, I KNOW THAT I AM SPIRIT FILLED AND NO DEMON POWER CAN AFFLICT ME SO I AM NOT SCARED TO MINGLE WITH THE "WITCHES" CAUSE MY GOD HAS ALL POWER AND GLORY AND THESE "WITCHES" CAN-NOT HURT ME

AS CHRISTIANS WE ARE THE LIGHT, AND DARKNESS IS EITHER DEFLECTED BY LIGHT OR ATTRACTED TO LIGHT. WE NEED TO LEARN TO SPEAK THE WORD TO SATAN HIMSELF, CAUSE LIKE JESUS, A TIME LIKE THAT WILL COME IN OUR LIVES....(THAT IS IF YOU ARE A TRUE JESUS FREAK LIKE MYSELF)

[EricH]

So, basically, a Christian text is something written by a Christian who other Christians think has the right idea, as opposed to being written by a Christian whom other Christians disagree.

Isn't this the epitome of subjective classification?

That is not what I stated. Re read my post. I stated that the only text that carries authority in the life of a believer is the Bible. Anything else is just a Christian writing

[dakota190]

Silent Cry, as a christian that hates to hear other christians telling non-christians, there is only one way, have you perhaps heard of the verse quoting Jesus, (who by the way in the central figure and teacher of the christian faith) there is only one way to the father, and that is through Jesus, the son. "no one comes to the father, except through me," and that we as christians were given the Great commission, to go and spread the Gospel,(the good news) across the world. yet you hate to hear us do the things Jesus himself directed the apostles to do, through extension we as christians to do. by not informing those that are following a wrong Gospel or no Gospel at all, we are not following the Leader of our faith, who by the way gave his life for the right to establish and lead us. we are not being good and faithful stewards of the faith if we stand idly by and let witches, athieists, cultists, satan worshippers or what or whoever, come on these boards and try to dilute the word of God. no we cannot just live and let live and allow others to spread their heresy uncontested. it too easy to lead some weaker or some who are new and not well versed in God's word away from salvation. there is no salvation in any other belief. why worship the created when we are directed to worship the creator. the other forms you as a self proclaiming christian are defending are pathways to hell. if you are not strong enough to know that and stand up for that you are in danger of being led away by your worldly desire to be politically correct. those other forms stress worship of everything except the Lord, now consider for a moment, who would be most likely to be the driving force behind such a philosophy. could it be ummmmm, satan? if you will study God's word you will see, he does not want you wasting your time defending godless belief systems. by the way God is the final authority of a so called religion, not the religion itself. God repeatedly punished the Jews, severely for not pulling down the high places, which were altars to false gods and practices. it is not up to man to declare whether or not a "religion" is accepted or approved. are we man pleasers or worshippers of the one true, living God? if we turly worship the the one God, then we must give him his full due, and the bible tells us very plainly what that is.