SCIENCE!!!

[Guest power mousey]

hey and hi Troyboy,

and hey Wayne and others too....

you like and want some interesting mental stimulation and also one more element of design

not only from our Lord God but also the intelligence and creativeness he gave to you,me, and all mankind. Interest and confirmation too.

check out the Hydra. no!...not the multi-headed mythlogical beastie of ancient myths but the cel processor chip from parallax. Its a multi-core embedded microcontroller. And with Harvard computer architecture rather than the usual and standard Von Neumann computer architecture.

check it out at www.parallax.com/propeller

also Andre Lamothe is coming out with the Hydra game console with the Hydra cel included.

The console is a game console and a full fledged computer too. It will be out in around 2 months or so.

his web site is at www.xgamestation.com

cheers,

your bro,

power mousey

[Michael333]

We die. We cease to exist. We are no more! My memory might live on and that's what I live for. Hopefully I help a few people along the way. Also, my genetic make-up will go on too.

What do you look forward to as you get older and closer to death?

I look forward to seeing the smiling faces on my family. Even on my death bed I can see myself looking at them happy as can be, content in them knowing I did them justice the whole way. My family LOVES me to peices. They recognize me as a "good crazy." My sense of humor is remarkable I'm told.

Do you believe you will see your parents ever again after they die?

I don't use the word "believe." I still have my mom left. She knows that I think I'll never see my Dad again. I loved him so much and will miss him. I guess it'd be nice to think I'd get to see him again sure. That's one of many belated gifts your religions gives you after you die where you can't test it now. To this world, that's all inconsequential.

Have you ever been depressed? I'm sure you were at least deeply saddend by the loss of your Father. What gives you hope to carry on? I mean, if we just cease to exist then why do we care about anything?

"My memory might live on and that's what I live for".

-- but memories only last so long, big deal. I'm sure you don't mean that is ALL you live for.

What do you mean by your Mom "knows that I think I'll never see my Dad again"?

Love is very powerful. Love is not material. You can't touch it, taste it, measure it. How is it that a material thing such as our brains can produce a non-material thing such as love? Don't ask me!

"Even on my death bed I can see myself looking at them happy as can be, content in them knowing I did them justice the whole way. "

-- Again, SO WHAT? That is, if you are just going to cease to exist. Why love someone soo much like your mother and father, and be obedient to them if we are all just going to cease to exist at some point in time??? What have we accomplished? NOTHING! Do you see my point?

A murderer may say "who cares if I kill a bunch of people, we're all going to "cease to exist" at some point anyway, and what consequences do I have?" NONE by what you are saying!

From what I can see from viewing many forums about religion vs. no-religion, is that the arguments go around and around, and nothing gets accomplished. I can't make you believe anything, and I am not trying to. That is why we have free will. To make our own desicions and hope for the best. Mine just happens to be that - God IS love, and all who live in God, live in love. The meaning of life for me is that the purpose we are on this earth is to prepare ourselves for the eternal life in God. The choices we make in this life will have to be answered for in the next. God sent his only son Jesus to die on the cross so that us humans could be raised up on the last day as he was. To "open the gates of heaven". THAT is what gives me HOPE. The hope also to see my family and friends again in the eternal life to come. For without Charity, Hope, and Love, what is the point in living?

I pray that your Father is already there, hoping to see you again. Even if you believe he is not, I think I would take my chances that he is. What would it hurt to have a little faith?

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Daniel,

You have made two mutually exclsuive comments. How do you reconcile them?

He's lives on in my memories because HE DID A GREAT JOB BEING A FATHER AND MENTOR AND EVERYTHING ELSE UNDER THE SUN WHILE HE WAS HERE. He practice acceptance.

Think of it, I was an Atheist even while a teenager at church. Scared to death to confront my parents about it because my father was a deacon. I did it finally at age 22 and he was very accepting. I could see that my dad wasn't afraid of anything really, just accepting. He enjoyed his life, and because of that, I enjoyed his. It's so simple.

"What would it hurt to have a little faith?" Sundays could be used to better yourself and others. That faith, is belief and I'd have to vote accordingly, regardless of the truth. My faith might interfere with someone else's and by default we'd be on different teams, divided. That faith couldn't reconcile the "Man was created"/Evolution debacle and for that shows it's ability to breed and keep ignorance. That faith, for the most part, has always been lead by men that were in it with the elite. Those men have always wanted to be elite. That faith ultimately wants to keep itself alive too and will conform reality around itself in that attempt.

You say that Faith couldn't reconcile between evolution and Gods Truth. That it would breed ignornace. Yet your ignorance of Loving God never kept your father from Loving and accepting you.

I also really don't see how you could possibly use your Sunday better than Worshipping God. It is what you, I, and Lepaca were made for.

What have you used the last few Sundays for? How have you bettered yourself and others?

I also have never gotten an answer to the problem of those who cannot make themselves better due to poverty and sin. Do they need an advocate and is man that advocate? Has mankind on his own eradicated war, illness, poverty, stress, and the problem of sin? When I say sin I mean the process by which these other things happen.

Will evolution solve this problem? I mean I've read the work of Stephen Hawking and he feels that evolution will ultimately produce God. Do you feel that we are gods in our way?

Peace,

Dave

[Soul_Searcher50]

Hi Michael,

"Before we go any further with this 'discussion', I would like to know a few things about Lepaca and Daniel Dennett and also Troyboy . What do you believe happens to you when you die?"

I hope you don't mind if I interject myself here, as one who believes in God, but not in Hell. When we die to these bodies we move on to the next level. It is a level of greater beauty, greater knowledge, but not yet the "God" level. OR, we do return to the origin, to God, until such 'time' as we choose to return to corporeal existence to experience the illusion of being separate from God.

"What do you look forward to as you get older and closer to death?"

I'm already older! I look forward to each day, each moment. I look forward to learning more about myself, about others, about God and what we're here for.

"Do you believe you will see your parents ever again after they die?"

Without a doubt. Not in a physical sense, but in essence.

"I would like to "sit down" and talk about what you truly believe the 'meaning of life' is for you."

What, to you, is the meaning of life?

"Why do we humans (intelligent beings, separate from the rest of the animals) even exist?"

To experience being. What do you believe?

"What happend to the rest of the animals? Did they just happen to not get "selected" by nature for this?"

The rest of what animals? Speaking of animals, how did Noah get animals from all over the world, thousands of species, onto that little boat?

Love and Peace,

SS

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

The Lord Bless you Daniel,

Here in lies your truth;

God's in our own way? Yes. We are the best intelligences we know. One day, we might discover ultimately that we can talk to dolphins and in the process discover that they have a more complicated vocabulary than we do. Wouldn't that be something? It's still a possibility. BUT, as far as we know today, we are God's.

Until we can get past this, we can have no further discussion, sadly. Mankind is not a god, not even close. We are a marred image of our Creator. Soiled by sin. It is quite enlightening that you feel this way, it is the same conclussion Hawking came to, it is the only conclussion opf the lie that is evolution. can you see how it has colored your view of God?

You see Him in the way of your own acension. When He is the only way really to your acension. He is not some meglomaniac in the sky demanding your allegiance. He is quite the opposite. He is a Loving Father reaching down, shedding His Robes of Glory to reach you. Manifesting Himself as a man, taking on your meglomania so as to Bridge the gap and Love you just the way you are. Meeting you right where you are at.

Lu

[Soul_Searcher50]

Hi Dave,

If I may...

"Mankind is not a god, not even close."

True, we are OF God, but not separate Gods; One with God, never parted except in our own minds.

"We are a marred image of our Creator. Soiled by sin."

If this is so, why did God create us this way? If sin is so bad, why did God allow it to happen?

"You see Him in the way of your own acension. When He is the only way really to your acension."

People see what they want to see. People believe what they want to believe. You see a God of anger, vengence, judgment and condemnation, yet somehow you call it love. I see a God of Love, and nothing more--no anger, jealousy or judgment. Why? Because Love is none of those things, Love DOES none of those things.

"He is not some meglomaniac in the sky demanding your allegiance."

If Hell, eternal burning and suffering, is the end result of not stating our allegiance to God...

"He is quite the opposite. He is a Loving Father reaching down, shedding His Robes of Glory to reach you. Manifesting Himself as a man, taking on your meglomania so as to Bridge the gap and Love you just the way you are. Meeting you right where you are at."

And what this shows me is God IS Love, sending us messengers and messages to awaken us to His love and constant presence in our lives.

"Ps 94:11 The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity."

But where does vanity come from? Fear. What casts out fear?

Love and Peace,

SS

[Michael333]

(Lepaca) Theory of Evolution... "they explain processes (evolution, photosintesis) or analyze the natural behaviour of certain entities (gravity etc).

NOTE: Christians should not "propose to throw out evolution". I think there is some major mis-communication in this discussion regarding how Christians view Science, evolution, etc. We are not proposing to throw it out, we just have a different view regarding evolution. I am Catholic so here is a bit of info that I go by:

What is the Catholic position concerning belief or unbelief in evolution? The question may never be finally settled, but there are definite parameters to what is acceptable Catholic belief.

Concerning cosmological evolution, the Church has infallibly defined that the universe was specially created out of nothing. Vatican I solemnly defined that everyone must "confess the world and all things which are contained in it, both spiritual and material, as regards their whole substance, have been produced by God from nothing" (Canons on God the Creator of All Things, canon 5).

The Church does not have an official position on whether the stars, nebulae, and planets we see today were created at that time or whether they developed over time (for example, in the aftermath of the Big Bang that modern cosmologists discuss). However, the Church would maintain that, if the stars and planets did develop over time, this still ultimately must be attributed to God and his plan, for Scripture records: "By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and all their host [stars, nebulae, planets] by the breath of his mouth" (Ps. 33:6).

Concerning biological evolution, the Church does not have an official position on whether various life forms developed over the course of time. However, it says that, if they did develop, then they did so under the impetus and guidance of God, and their ultimate creation must be ascribed to him.

Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man

Edited June 9, 2006 by Michael333

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

So now you are not a God?

I know alot about evolution, everything I learned about it came from my 8th grade science teacher. Just about covers the subject.

Once again you assume that a Christian is a thick headed Neanderthal.

I did not evolve from an ape. I was made in the image of my Creator. This leaves me no excuse to act like an ape. It actually means that my life is worth more than an ameoba in a petri dish. It also leads me to the worldview that life is valuable and should not be cheapened.

There is no evolution going on with dogs. There is a selection process that can happen within the genus of that species however there has not been a whole new animal of a higher order Created. I also happen to know that the complex mechanical processes that it takes to have flight cannot have evolved. Neither can the eye have simply begun to allow light in without blinding an organism.

Yes, my children are already having evolution crammed down their throats by the Public education system. My daughter has already been told about the supposed evolving moths in England which again is merely a sham. Thank God she is well grounded in the Word. She was also told that a Communist was a Great American Patriot. Sigh!

Absolutism breeds Meglomaniacism in my opinion

Are you denying that you are absolutely an atheist?

I'm not denying that I absolutely believe the Word of God.

The only difference is that I am not here trying to disprove your Faith in science. Yet you are here trying to disprove my Faith and others in God. God has so Humbled me my friend, yet I recognize the mode of operation when I see it.

Your truth doens't have anything to do with my truth.

Allow me to correct you, It's not my Truth it's Gods Truth and it isn't relative nor open for debate as far as He is concerned.

God did not design evolution despite the claims of the Catholic Church. As well as the entire collection of Darwinian Scientists.

Here's the Truth and mind you it is Gods Word not mine;

Ge

[Jorge S]

If I may...

True, we are OF God, but not separate Gods; One with God, never parted except in our own minds.

If this is so, why did God create us this way? If sin is so bad, why did God allow it to happen?

People see what they want to see. People believe what they want to believe. You see a God of anger, vengence, judgment and condemnation, yet somehow you call it love. I see a God of Love, and nothing more--no anger, jealousy or judgment. Why? Because Love is none of those things, Love DOES none of those things.

And what this shows me is God IS Love, sending us messengers and messages to awaken us to His love and constant presence in our lives.

But where does vanity come from? Fear. What casts out fear?

Love and Peace,

SS

Hi, Soul-Searcher50.

I agree totally with you in that sometimes we see and believe what we want and not what is objective.

Everyone could be right about everything everytime unless there was a standard applicable to everyone on everything all the time. That is what The Bible is to me.

God inspired the Bible, amognst other things, to give us an objective way of knowing Him the way He Is and not as we want Him to be.

You depict a God that is impersonal, neutral, powerless, lethargically detached from the world and lovingly unidimensional. We are partakers of his very essence; he is in us, we are in him: we are divine. We don't need moral standards, authority, justice, grace, salvation. Sin is an illusion. It is all about our level of spiritual enlightenment, which can be achieved by self-awareness. We are divine sparks that fell on earth for no apparent reason and must make our way back up to rejoin the Supreme Being.

In Scriptures God reveals Himself as a distinct Person (triune, for that matter) Who created the universe out of nothing (not of His Own Nature) and actively sustains it. He commands history, has standards, teaches what is right and what is wrong, judges our actions, and declares in advance what He is going to do. He created us in His image and allows us to exercise choice. He knows we are fallible and dependant on Him for grace, forgiveness and remission of sins. That is why He offered Jesus as the perfect atonement for our trespasses. We just need to acknowledge Him and abide in Him to avoid the condemnation that sin and lawlessness deserve.

He is not only perfect Love, but also perfect Justice, Righteousness, Peace, Knowledge, Power, Sovereignty, etc. Love that does not teach, correct, inspire, transform, elevate and liberate is not Love but darkening and vicious permissiveness not in line with God's Nature.

He perfectly exercises all His Attributes harmoniously and eternally. We cannot be like Him, for we are His 'Handiwork'.

Be Abundantly Blessed In Jesus' Name.

[Soul_Searcher50]

Hi Jorge,

"I agree totally with you in that sometimes we see and believe what we want and not what is objective."

Sometimes?

"Everyone could be right about everything everytime unless there was a standard applicable to everyone on everything all the time. That is what The Bible is to me."

True, but that doesn't mean the Bible is objective. Taken at face value, it is a traditional history of the Jewish people, written FOR the Jewish people BY the Jewish people. There is really nothing objective about it.

"God inspired the Bible, amognst other things, to give us an objective way of knowing Him the way He Is and not as we want Him to be."

As I said... When you look at the God the Jews constructed you can see just how 'human' He is. They have taken what cannot be understood and created a God that is barely above us in knowledge or love, just power.

"You depict a God that is impersonal, neutral, powerless, lethargically detached from the world and lovingly unidimensional."

Hardly impersonal as God is within each of us, but yes, neutral, as in God loves each person, each being, equally. Powerless? In what way? Detached from the world? Not at all. God IS the world. Nor uni-dimensional, but infinitely dimensional.

"We are partakers of his very essence; he is in us, we are in him: we are divine."

This is true. Did not Jesus say this? "Is it not written, ye are gods?"

"We don't need moral standards, authority, justice, grace, salvation."

Did I say we don't need moral standards? No. What authority do we need? Do we require the threat of Hell to do what is right? What of justice? Isn't that just saying, "Fear God, fear Hell"? And please define Grace in this context. As for salvation, what we need is salvation from ourselves, our own fears. This too is what Jesus taught.

"Sin is an illusion."

True, for if our existence is but and illusion, a dream, then the 'sin' does not truly exist.

"It is all about our level of spiritual enlightenment, which can be achieved by self-awareness. We are divine sparks that fell on earth for no apparent reason and must make our way back up to rejoin the Supreme Being."

We didn't 'fall' anywhere. We are aspects of God in a game of illusion, believing we are separate from God, and each other. We are exploring existence separate from God, yet in reality we never left home, much like Dorothy in Oz. So while we do some horrible things, we also learn that Love is the only answer, the only thing that truly brings us joy, and the only thing that truly connects us with God.

"In Scriptures God reveals Himself as a distinct Person (triune, for that matter) Who created the universe out of nothing (not of His Own Nature) and actively sustains it."

Yes, the Jews saw God as a person, and so defined God as a person, with human traits, fears, foibles and emotions. Do you really believe the Creator of the Universe would act as YHWH did, with such anger and regret and wrath towards His own children? Honestly?

"He commands history, has standards, teaches what is right and what is wrong, judges our actions, and declares in advance what He is going to do."

This declaring in advance, does this include creating Christ before creating the universe, knowing full well His creation of man will cause Him untold pain, will cause God to regret even creating Man, and knowing full well He will be sending the Christ as a 'sacrifice' to placate Himself for the mistake of creating a sinful Man?

"He created us in His image and allows us to exercise choice."

Yes, life is choice, life is creation.

"He knows we are fallible and dependant on Him for grace, forgiveness and remission of sins."

We are fearful, yes, acting as if we are separate entities.

"That is why He offered Jesus as the perfect atonement for our trespasses."

But we were created this way; this is how God wanted us, or we wouldn't have been created this way. Jesus didn't come to atone, but to enlighten! Jesus came to show us our fears are baseless, and only love can wake us up to the divine within.

"We just need to acknowledge Him and abide in Him to avoid the condemnation that sin and lawlessness deserve."

In other words, to avoid Hell, correct? Why in the name of all that is Holy would an all-loving God have a Hell?

"He is not only perfect Love, but also perfect Justice, Righteousness, Peace, Knowledge, Power, Sovereignty, etc."

You forgot anger, jealousy, wrath, condemnation--all aspects of fear, yet we read Perfect Love casts out fear, so how can God be both?

"Love that does not teach, correct, inspire, transform, elevate and liberate is not Love but darkening and vicious permissiveness not in line with God's Nature."

Love that does not teach, correct, etc., is not love, correct, but love does not condemn either. Love does not send it's children to Hell, however you define it.

"He perfectly exercises all His Attributes harmoniously and eternally. We cannot be like Him, for we are His 'Handiwork'."

Did Jesus not say with faith we can heal, we can move mountains? Did Jesus not instruct us to love each other as He loves us? Are these not the actions of God? If we cannot be like God, then Jesus coming to us and teaching us was a waste of time, and I certainly don't believe that.

Love and Peace,

SS