Guest NewPilgrim Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 If you want to make it clear preacher, how about answering a simple yes or no question: As well as being evidence of it, do our works and adherence to Gods law maintain our salvation? Your interpretation of Hebrews 4 was rather skewed Preacher, so skewed in fact that you managed to completely reverse the message which the author conveys: Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. (meaning that some among them may not yet have salvation) 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,'"* (ref to: Heb 3:11) - Authors comment in Heb 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";* 5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest."* 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."* 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. (verse Ten concludes the passage with a stark contrast between the works of living by law and the "rest" of living by faith. we have ceased from our works, in so much as it is no longer the law which sanctifies us and that no repetion of sacrifices is needed for coverings and righteousness) The author goes on to further expound this premise and explains the change from the sacrifces of old to the one true sacrifice and from the priests of old to the new high priest in Yeshua. He also addresses in later chapters the issue that such a covenant which doesnt require works should not breed a slovenly attitude in us but rather that we should always press on with good works because these are the evidence that we are in covenant with Christ, the author being keen that he should see the "fruits of his labour" in this case to see evidence that his preaching is having a good effect on his disciples. Its charicteristics such as this in the letter to the Hebrews that lead many to believe that it was written by Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepreacher Posted May 17, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 148 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/28/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 (edited) NewPilgrim, My topic is to help show the pattern of God Edited May 17, 2006 by thepreacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted May 17, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2006 Grace to you, I am not arguing, I am reasoning with you. You are at odds with yourself. On one hand you state that there are many ways to Salvation. While on the other you state that there is only one way through Christ. As far as your Faith is concerned? Eph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepreacher Posted May 17, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 148 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/28/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 Good morning Matthitjah, Your not the one I thought was arguing. It may seem like I am at odds with myself, but not if you look closer or I explain better. I listed the many ways OTHER people say they can be saved, but I believe there is only one way myself. I am not afraid of listing my thoughts also, but they are not as important as bringing out all the truth in the bible right now. One reason why I listed them is to show the fallacy of taking just one of these ideas, words or scriptures and saying that is the only way. Then telling everyone else they are losers if they believe in one of the other scriptures. For example one person or group will say you can only be saved by grace through faith and everyone else is lost. I have heard people say that you cannot even speak your thoughts or that is a work and you would be trying to save yourself by works. Another person or group will say you can only be saved by believing in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and everyone else is lost. Have you ever come across someone like that? I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I would like everyone to help bring out the truth. Not by individual interpretation but by just laying out the ALL the scripture. In other words my interpretation and yours can be stated, but I don't want that to take away from the topic. Please understand. I listed the many ways OTHER people say they can be saved, but I believe there is only one way myself. I am not afraid of listing my thoughts also, but they are not as important as bringing out all the truth in the bible right now. One reason why I listed them is to show the fallacy of taking just one of these ideas, words or scriptures and saying that is the only way. Then telling everyone else they are losers if they believe in one of the other scriptures. Preacher you contradict your own stated purpose and contest me when I challenge your interpretation. If your Purpose is simply to lay out scriptures for our consideration then lay them out and leave us to it. it seems however that you wish to state your opinion as final and authorative and dress it in a thin veil of "freedom to discuss"...as long as we come to the same conclusions as you have. Feel free to state your opinions, as you graciously have "allowed" others to do, but dont be surprised if some desire to contest your opinions. Preach an inadequate sacrifice sir and I guarantee you will be contested, in this or any other christian forum. "have cake...will eat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted May 17, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2006 Grace to you, Ok preacher. I think I begin to unerstand you? In a round about fashion you are saying there are many ways the Bible says the same thing. I would concur with that thought. It is called line upon line and precept upon precept. The fact still remains though that it should lead anyone who reads it to the same conclussion no matter how it is perceived individually. Otherwise it is not the Word of God and rather a private interpretation. As we know this is not the case; 2Pe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 17, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2006 THROUGH THE SURRENDER OF OUR MIND TO CLARITY IN GOD....THANK GOD FOR THIS NEW LIFE AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1. Please do not post in all caps 2. Unpack what you mean by this statement for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 17, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2006 THROUGH THE SURRENDER OF OUR MIND TO CLARITY IN GOD....THANK GOD FOR THIS NEW LIFE AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1. Please do not post in all caps 2. Unpack what you mean by this statement for me. nothing to unpack bout it.... sorry the caps offended...wasn't trying to. was trying to be encouraging and fruitful. I don't understand what you mean by your statement: "Through the surrender of our mind to clarity in God" Please explain what you mean by that and how it relates to our salvation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepreacher Posted May 17, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 148 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/28/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 Micen2, Your right when you say there is only one way. The problem is that all people seem to have their own one way that is different than everyone else. The goal of this topic is to try to get more people in agreement. Thank you for your reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 17, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2006 THROUGH THE SURRENDER OF OUR MIND TO CLARITY IN GOD....THANK GOD FOR THIS NEW LIFE AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1. Please do not post in all caps 2. Unpack what you mean by this statement for me. nothing to unpack bout it.... sorry the caps offended...wasn't trying to. was trying to be encouraging and fruitful. I don't understand what you mean by your statement: "Through the surrender of our mind to clarity in God" Please explain what you mean by that and how it relates to our salvation having not neglected this statement .... "First of all to start this off, can you find some other ways mentioned in the New Testament through which a person might be saved? PLEASE use only scripture not your interpretations of scripture and please again, no examples outside of the bible."....to word it differently...that you may see its corespondance with the bible.......god loves a contrite heart and mind(contrite is spoken of in the bible but not sure as to its scripture #..however by "surrender"-contrite is being implied).....and again....be ye therefore renewed in your minds....not walking as the gentiles walk...clouded and darkened by the ignorance that is in them(that might be in ephesians).....and contrite is a disposition of surrender.....that should clear it up for you....(I think you may have been inquiring to its corespondance with the bible- prolly yea?) OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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