apothanein kerdos Posted May 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2006 What about those who are gay but celibate? that is not a sin because no action is taken. And there are murderers who have had mental illnesses and deemed unable to control there actions, however I think it comes down to a choice whether gay or straight. There is a point before fornication that one has a chance to leave and go the other way. Yet we all have sinned and not done the things we should. If you really look into your heart Leonard you will find that there is some prejudice there. For example if a man came to your church who was living out of wedlock with his girlfriend and another who lived with another man. I think that most christians would look down on the gay man yet pray that the couple get married. Throughout the animal kingdom there is exhibition of homosexual behavior. Sin is not in deed only. If we have sin within our hearts but choose not to act on it, we are still sinners. Jesus addresses this with lust. If we lust (which is not a physical action but an inner action) then we have sinned. Likewise, if someone is male and has an attraction to males then he has sinned. No one is born that way, and unless you can provide evidence stating they are, I think you have no case. As for homosexuality in the animal world...give me a break. This is yet another attempt to justify homosexuality without looking at the entire picture. For one, most animals that act in homosexual ways are doing so for dominance...but let's go ahead and leave that out. Since occurances in the animal kingdom now justify human actions, we are now allowed to: * Eat our own dung * Kill other humans if they are competition, such as for a mate * Rape a woman so she'll have our offspring * Get a woman pregnant and leave her to be * Walk around naked * Kill off those that are weak * Urinate anywhere I want, specifically to mark my terrirotiral bounds I'm simply following your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Dole Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2006 Sin is not in deed only. If we have sin within our hearts but choose not to act on it, we are still sinners. Jesus addresses this with lust. If we lust (which is not a physical action but an inner action) then we have sinned. Likewise, if someone is male and has an attraction to males then he has sinned. No one is born that way, and unless you can provide evidence stating they are, I think you have no case. Umm actually sin is in deed only. An inner action is as much an action as an outer action. If a man has an attraction to females that's also a sin (lust.) If a man is born gay (and yes it's something you're born with, unless you could explain why people would choose to have their family disown them, live a life in ridicule and shame, and sometimes even get a severe to fatal beating) but he never has sexual relations with another man and never lusts after another man, he has not sinned. Even if it is a choice you can still choose to be gay and not have sinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Dole Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2006 I forgot to mention something * Eat our own dung Animals do that for a number of reasons, to hide their scent from other animals, if they're not getting enough nutrients, some might even just like the taste. Also, as humans we can eat our own dung, it's not a sin (ok well I hope it's not a sin, cause if it is that means there were so many people eating their own dung when the bible was written that we had to add that into the book) it's just not something most of us want to do. * Kill other humans if they are competition, such as for a mate Animals do that to pass on their own genes, it helps the species as a whole too because the stronger of the males gets the female so the stronger genes get passed on. This wouldn't be as important if a female could carry the babies from many different mates instead of just one until the offspring is born. * Rape a woman so she'll have our offspring Again, just passing on genes, reproduction is very important to animals. * Get a woman pregnant and leave her to be Passing on genes, the more females you can get pregnant at one time the more of your genes get passed. * Walk around naked Is that a sin? Don't we wear clothes out of modesty? Adam and Eve walked around naked till they ate that apple, besides, animals can't make clothes, and when they do wear them they can't wait to get out of them. It serves no purpose for them and I'm sure to them it feels like they're dirty and they should clean up by removing whatever is stuck to them. * Kill off those that are weak I've never heard of animals doing that to their own species, but it'd probably help them weed out the weak ones that will slow down their movement or make it easier for other animals to find them and perhaps even attack. * Urinate anywhere I want, specifically to mark my terrirotiral bounds Well, I generally urinate wherever I want and I generally want to urinate in a toilet but trees, bushes or if I'm driving around late at night in Manhattan, the sides of a builing. There is a law against it but most cops will look the other way unless you're really doing it someplace bad. Animals don't really have a choice in where they urinate either and marking their territory is important because they don't want other animals coming in, stealing their shelter, their food or their mates. I have just explain why all of the above can be usefull to an animal as a single animal or as a species, now please explain how homosexuality can benefit an animal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Possibly nature's way of population control within a species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Dannyboy Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 156 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,454 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1969 Share Posted June 1, 2006 You should read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted June 1, 2006 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20..._gayanimal.html Another good site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Dole Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2006 Hehe well whatever reason the animals practice homosexuality, just being a homosexual is not a sin. It's the act of sex with another man that is sinful. A man being attracted to another man is just as sinful as a man being attracted to another woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2006 Umm actually sin is in deed only. An inner action is as much an action as an outer action. I think you're trying to argue semantics. The point I am making is that it is not possible to be gay, not act on it, and somehow not be a sinner. At the point you realize you like the same sex, you are a sinner. All sin is committed within...two men having sex is not sin (per se) but a physical manisfestation of what has already occured inside both of them. At the point someone goes, "Wow, I like the same sex" he is saying, "I do not care about God's plan for men to be with women in a covenant relationship if He has called them to it...I like the same sex!" Thus, it's still a sin no matter if it's acted on or not. If a man is born gay (and yes it's something you're born with, unless you could explain why people would choose to have their family disown them, live a life in ridicule and shame, and sometimes even get a severe to fatal beating) but he never has sexual relations with another man and never lusts after another man, he has not sinned. Even if it is a choice you can still choose to be gay and not have sinned. For one, the argument that they have to be born gay because if they choose homosexuality they face ridicule is an extremely weak one. If this is the case, then does that mean people who rape little children are born that way? After all, they're going to face ridicule, jail time, and possibly murder within jail. A person who accepts Christ in Sudan is going to face murder, possibly at the hands of his own family. Does that mean he's born that way? Of course not. Just because someone makes a difficult decision doesn't mean the decision was inherrent within the person. Addiction, especially to sexual sins, is so powerful that we will leave the bonds of the rational in order to pursue that which is irrational. As for what you said, I encourage you to do a study of sin. You will find that, biblically, all sin begins from within. At the point someone goes, "Wow, I like the same sex" they have sinned. I have just explain why all of the above can be usefull to an animal as a single animal or as a species, now please explain how homosexuality can benefit an animal? My point behind all of that was, if it is beneficial to the animal kingdom, then why can't humans do it? If anything, you are only helping my point. Reason being is that animals engage in homosexual activity for two reasons: 1) It shows dominance over a competing male or female in the group 2) Confusion during how it was raised. In other words, two male bears are raised by female bears will most likely end up trying to mate with each other due to gender confusion gained by nurture. The fact is, if you're going to use the natural world to justify homosexuality, then I'm going to use the natural world to justify letting all rapists and murders out of prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Dole Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2006 "I do not care about God's plan for men to be with women in a covenant relationship if He has called them to it...I like the same sex!" Well, it's impossible to go against god's plan. It's god's plan, if you go against god's plan then god planned wrong because you didn't do what he expected you to do and god can't be wrong because he's infallible. Therefore, you can't go against god's plan. Anyway, that's not very important I just wanted to point it out. Does your statement also mean priests are sinners? They vow to never enter a relationship of any kind with a woman don't they? What about a homosexual priest? They aren't entering a relationship with anyone because of their vows, they aren't thinking any lustful thoughts, they aren't thinking about other men in a sexual way, why would that priest still be a sinner? Where in the bible does it say that all men must be sexually attracted to women and going against that is a sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted June 1, 2006 All I can say is, I am happy to be a member of Anglican Essentials Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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