RGR Posted May 27, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Share Posted May 27, 2006 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...d=1766&ito=1490 Bishop abandoned in Africa over gay views 20:32pm 24th May 2006 Comments Reader comments (1) The Bishop of Chelmsford and a group of clergy have been abandoned on a visit to Africa, after his liberal views on gays were discovered by the local Archbishop, it emerged today. The Rt Rev John Gladwin has been told that hospitality has been "withdrawn" by the Archdiocese of Kenya to himself and 20 other clergy because of his views about homosexuality. The bishop and his group are currently on a fortnight's visit to Kenya aimed at strengthening the 20-year links between the dioceses of Embu, Mbeere, Kirinyaga and Meru in Kenya and Chelmsford. Bishop Gladwin was named this month as one of four new patrons of Changing Attitude, the campaigning group that aims at equality of opportunity for lesbian, gay and bisexual people in the Anglican Church. The Anglican Church in Kenya is part of a group known as the "Global South" that is opposed to a liberalisation of the Anglican Church's teaching about homosexuality. The Archbishop of Kenya, the Most Rev Benjamin Nzimbi, said in a statement that the Kenyan Church was "unable to continue with advancing the lined-up activities with the diocese of Chelmsford." The Church of England group are currently in a hotel in Embu, a diocese to the north east of Nairobi, and have to stay a further week in the country before they can return to the UK. The Rev Christopher Newlands, chaplain to Bishop Gladwin, and not part of the Kenya visit, said the development was "deeply to be regretted". "They are in a hotel at the moment and we are trying to see what we can do to recover the planned programme and make the best possible use of their time out there," he said. "Clearly we are doing everything we can from this end and in Kenya to try to heal the problems that have arisen over this misunderstanding about what working on Changing Attitude means and what the Lambeth Resolutions call us to do - listening to the experiences of lesbian and gay people in the church." A statement issued on behalf of Bishop Gladwin by Mr Newlands said: "I hope that we can get over this misunderstanding and make clear our determination to carry forward the Lambeth Resolutions and to learn how God is at work in all his people in England and in Kenya." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted May 27, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2006 You do not Heal the cancer of sin ....you cut it off... kudos to the "Global South" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted May 28, 2006 You do not Heal the cancer of sin ....you cut it off... kudos to the "Global South" It is unfortunate to see the division within our Anglican church today. Whether homosexual lifestyles are to be condoned or not I don't know, but I do know that Jesus came and laid his life down for all sinners that means you me and homosexuals. All have sinned and fallen short... Jesus didn't cut off the sinners He embraced them He loved them , He broke bread with them, even Judas who betrayed Him with a kiss. We all struggle and I am not advocating a sinful lifestyle but God is always forgiving and so am I of my brothers and sisters in Christ and of my clergy who sometimes act not at all like Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2006 Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Here is a link if you are interested in what is happening with the ECUSA.. VirtueOnline it is way past "unfortunate"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted May 28, 2006 I think the church is at a crossroads and the decisions made by some of our clergy may not be correct but God has put them there and allowed the Holy Spirit to work in and through a community that has been held with disgust and abhoration by christians in the past. Notice that your passage also talks about gossipers and jesters yet I don't see gossipers being kicked out of church. Love your neighbor as Christ loved you and sacrificed Himself for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted May 28, 2006 The big difference C.S. is that gossips, angry people, pick pockets, embezzlers, burglars, murderers, ARE NOT DEMANDING WE PRONOUNCE THEIR SIN 'GOOD' as the activist homosexuals are doing! Please don't pretend you can't see this. It is so obvious that any 6 year old can understand it. It is a shame that I have to explain it for someone with the unmitigated brass to take the name of a brilliant man like Dr. Lewis and sully that good name with views inimical to the man himself........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2006 I think the church is at a crossroads and the decisions made by some of our clergy may not be correct but God has put them there and allowed the Holy Spirit to work in and through a community that has been held with disgust and abhoration by christians in the past. Notice that your passage also talks about gossipers and jesters yet I don't see gossipers being kicked out of church. Love your neighbor as Christ loved you and sacrificed Himself for you. My pastor is a very conservative 60-ish man who is outspoken in his defense of Biblical teachings. Yet, in a recent sermon, he stated that homosexuals are as welcome in our church as the rest of us sinners. They are welcome to come, confess their sin, ask forgiveness, and praise the God who shows mercy on us all. We don't "kick them out". We welcome them in love. And in love, we encourage them to lay down their lives at the feet of Jesus--- and go and sin no more. Peace, Fiosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Thank you so much for your words of wisdom. I agree with you, however it is a different time that we live in today than the early Christians lived in and we must understand that change occurs in the church however reluctant we are to accept it. The Pharisees had every right to stone the prostitute but Jesus showed mercy and interpretted the law with love in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2006 Thank you so much for your words of wisdom. I agree with you, however it is a different time that we live in today than the early Christians lived in and we must understand that change occurs in the church however reluctant we are to accept it. The Pharisees had every right to stone the prostitute but Jesus showed mercy and interpretted the law with love in mind. Could you expand on this, CS? : " we must understand that change occurs in the church however reluctant we are to accept it" Thanks, F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Whether it has to do with a more modern worship service, prayer book revisions, or the ordination of homosexuals into the clergy, the Anglican Church has always approached change with extreme opposition even to the point of bloodshed. I think it is wrong as Leonard so eloquently stated to allow the ordination of bishops who are homosexuals, however it is also wrong for a bishop to ordain a priest outside of his/ her diocese that the conservative bishop did in the south. So neither side is blameless. Whereas the Catholic church is structured like a monarchy with the pope at the highest position, and baptists were every church is independent the Anglican union especially the Episcopal church in America is structured like a Confederacy where the bishops really have little or no jurisdiction over each other and the archbishop doesn't even have authority. This could be a very good thing but it could also be our downfall as there is very little one bishop can do to another bishop. After General Convention I wish the bishops would agree to follow what was ruled on but this is hardly never the case, and a dividing line has occured not only on issues of homosexuality but on all issues, however we still serve the same master and follow the same liturgy, and when all is said and done we are called to love one another whether straight or gay rich or poor black or white male or female conservative or liberal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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