eric Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted June 1, 2006 AK, point taken, but I'll have to get back to you when I figure out onotology ......Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Hey, Apo, you nearly had me going there. I know you are a brilliant scholar and very itellectually endowed, but ontology?... Leave it out mate. Lets just stick to the holy bible. I don't dig philosophy or science when I am dicussing biblical issues. You ask, If our bodies cannot go to heaven (because Heaven is a spiritual place) and only our spirits can, then where do our bodies go? You would have to ask Elijah and Enoc that, they seemed to defy the law of gravity, as Jesus did when He ascended in the flesh and the bible talks of the resurrection of both the living and the dead. Also Paul talks of receiving new bodies in the twinkling of an eye and I've always assumed that the new bodies would be spiritual. Why do you and Tess always have to bring philosophers into every discussion. We are talking thousands of years before philosophers were introduced publically. Maybe they were spoken of In Jesus' day but they didn't mean a hill of beans to the Lord, otherwise He would have elaborated more about them. Tess, keep your fingers away from the keyboard One at atime is all I can handle. Ontology??......nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 I wonder what it means a new body if we won't have bodies in heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Mine is a question of ontology: Our spirits go to Heaven after we die, correct? I think we can all agree on this (for the most part). After the tribulation and prior to the 1,000 year reign of Christ, we come back to earth in new bodies, correct? This means we go from our current physical/spiritual state, up to heaven in a purely spiritual state, and back down to earth in a combined spiritual/physical state. That means that Heaven is meant for spirits. If that is the case...when we are raptured....where do we go? If our bodies cannot go to heaven (because Heaven is a spiritual place) and only our spirits can, then where do our bodies go? Again, just a question of ontology. That is the great thing about the spiritual and God, ANYTHING can happen We will have bodies and they will be perfected, without any scars, no illness, no deformities..I can almost imagine we will look alot like we do now, after all when Jesus ascended into heaven He was in a new body but it wasn't completely different from the one He had on earth.. Sorry this point you are definitely wrong about sir. God Bless What does ontology have to do with heaven, new bodies and rapture anyhow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted June 1, 2006 You are onto it Jackie. Ontology has nothing to do with heaven or hell or anyplace else. I will stay with what the bible says about now and eternity and the bible says in Rom. 8:29 that whom He foreknew He also predistinated to be conformed to the image of His Son and I'll go along with that. Nothing is impossible with God as you say. eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypc Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 972 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1964 Share Posted June 1, 2006 2 Thes 2: 1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 things must happen before we are gathered with him (raptured) 1st Cor 15: 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2006 Hey, Apo, you nearly had me going there. I know you are a brilliant scholar and very itellectually endowed, but ontology?... Leave it out mate. Lets just stick to the holy bible. I don't dig philosophy or science when I am dicussing biblical issues. You ask, If our bodies cannot go to heaven (because Heaven is a spiritual place) and only our spirits can, then where do our bodies go? You would have to ask Elijah and Enoc that, they seemed to defy the law of gravity, as Jesus did when He ascended in the flesh and the bible talks of the resurrection of both the living and the dead. Also Paul talks of receiving new bodies in the twinkling of an eye and I've always assumed that the new bodies would be spiritual. Why do you and Tess always have to bring philosophers into every discussion. We are talking thousands of years before philosophers were introduced publically. Maybe they were spoken of In Jesus' day but they didn't mean a hill of beans to the Lord, otherwise He would have elaborated more about them. Tess, keep your fingers away from the keyboard One at atime is all I can handle. Ontology??......nah. The problem is it is impossible to cast away philosophy and science when discussing the Bible; the two are an inherent part of it. You can say philosophy means nothing to the Lord or to the early writers, but the simple fact is, they were creating mutliple philosophies within Christianity when writing and teaching. Christianity actually contains its own philosophy. What is a philosophy? It is more than a way of thinking, it is an overall method of thinking that shapes the way we view the world. Well, Christianity has that aspect, thus it must be a philosophy. Likewise, when the New Testament was composed, it was written during one of the greatest times for philosophical thinking. In fact, Paul debated philosophy at Mars Hill in Acts. Secondly, this is an important question to ask. The reason is that if we accept a pre-tribulation rapture then we must ask ourselves if it can work with what we know about these two realies (physical and spiritual). I guess we can assume that we are given new bodies in Heaven, which would mean it has no bearing on the rapture. I simply think it was a justified question to ask. Third, in dealing specifically with the rapture, does this not go against God's nature? For instance, everytime He delivers judgement or wrath can potentially come to His people from some external force, He either lets them go through it or protects them while they are in it. My question is, why does God suddenly and seemingly change His nature and simply remove us from the situation entirely when He has not done anything like that before. And lastly, I don't view this as a big issue. This is the first discussion I have really gotten involved in. I don't think it matters in the end, I'm just discussing for fun and have no problem admitting there are inadequate portions of my belief. It is becaue I haven't really studied it that much because I don't view it as a huge issue. To me it's just something fun to discuss once in a while to get our minds off the serious discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 2 Thes 2: 1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 things must happen before we are gathered with him (raptured) 1st Cor 15: 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted June 1, 2006 That's okay AK, should have guessed, knowing you as I do. As a matter of fact this about the first time I've ever done any serious posting about the end times, but I do have my own ideas about it. and a pre trib rapture is not on my programme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted June 2, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 2, 2006 I wonder what it means a new body if we won't have bodies in heaven? Hi Jackie, We will have new bodies. These bodies will be incorruptible, probably without the flesh, blood and bones that will be able to move in and through walls and just appear from out of nowhere like Jesus did, for we shall be like Him. The Bible says that we will be like the angels in heaven. Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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