kjw47 Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2006 As idealistic as you sound, Jesus also acknowldged that we live in a fallen world. Futhermore, we know that God does not change and that Christ IS God, therefore why do we see war supported in the Old Testament but suddenly despised in the New? Doesn't make any sense. Instead, Jesus is speaking of personal holiness, that as Christians we are to live at peace when we can. The purpose of a Government is to deliever justice, and war is sometimes an act of justice against a people or leadership of a people that have done an unjust thing. The love of Christ does not prevent such justice from occuring...in fact, it would be unloving not to do it. Christ did not come to establish a utopia...if He did, why didn't He or any of His followers speak out against the Roman expansion campaigns that were going on during His time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2006 As idealistic as you sound, Jesus also acknowldged that we live in a fallen world. Futhermore, we know that God does not change and that Christ IS God, therefore why do we see war supported in the Old Testament but suddenly despised in the New? Doesn't make any sense. Instead, Jesus is speaking of personal holiness, that as Christians we are to live at peace when we can. The purpose of a Government is to deliever justice, and war is sometimes an act of justice against a people or leadership of a people that have done an unjust thing. The love of Christ does not prevent such justice from occuring...in fact, it would be unloving not to do it. Christ did not come to establish a utopia...if He did, why didn't He or any of His followers speak out against the Roman expansion campaigns that were going on during His time? Hi friend. God judged those people in the ot to death directly through his prophets, and alot of the times angels did the killing, or he confused them to kill themselves. Then He sent us Jesus who taught all to love ones enemy, so i ask you can you blow the head off of someone you love on the orders of men who in Gods word clearly shows that in the last days ( if you believe we are here ) In his book of revelations God tells us all that-- satan will lead all kingdoms ( govts ) against God. So then if we are taught that these govts are actually Gods then why will satan be leading them against God??????? And why will there outcome be this Daniel 2:44. God does not crush what is his. And as i said, these are filling somes hearts with hatred for a brother who is decieved by satan, who then taught and filled his heart with hatred towards us. if we do as our enemy we are our enemy. The same Govt ( ours ) that sent brothers in christ to kill brothers in christ in ww1,ww2, the revolutionary war, the civil war. You see the Jesus i know would never let that be. It is LOVE that conquers all , not bombs or bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.01 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted June 11, 2006 As idealistic as you sound, Jesus also acknowldged that we live in a fallen world. Futhermore, we know that God does not change and that Christ IS God, therefore why do we see war supported in the Old Testament but suddenly despised in the New? Doesn't make any sense. Instead, Jesus is speaking of personal holiness, that as Christians we are to live at peace when we can. The purpose of a Government is to deliever justice, and war is sometimes an act of justice against a people or leadership of a people that have done an unjust thing. The love of Christ does not prevent such justice from occuring...in fact, it would be unloving not to do it. Christ did not come to establish a utopia...if He did, why didn't He or any of His followers speak out against the Roman expansion campaigns that were going on during His time? Hi friend. God judged those people in the ot to death directly through his prophets, and alot of the times angels did the killing, or he confused them to kill themselves. Then He sent us Jesus who taught all to love ones enemy, so i ask you can you blow the head off of someone you love on the orders of men who in Gods word clearly shows that in the last days ( if you believe we are here ) In his book of revelations God tells us all that-- satan will lead all kingdoms ( govts ) against God. So then if we are taught that these govts are actually Gods then why will satan be leading them against God??????? And why will there outcome be this Daniel 2:44. God does not crush what is his. And as i said, these are filling somes hearts with hatred for a brother who is decieved by satan, who then taught and filled his heart with hatred towards us. if we do as our enemy we are our enemy. The same Govt ( ours ) that sent brothers in christ to kill brothers in christ in ww1,ww2, the revolutionary war, the civil war. You see the Jesus i know would never let that be. It is LOVE that conquers all , not bombs or bullets. What you don't seem to understand is that people like AlZarqawi do not respond to love. What are you a misplaced hippy? This a man who beheaded Amricans..These people did nothing wrong. I can't believe this. We are suppose to just take what the enemy gives out and do nothing. Okay...tell you what...why don't you go over to Iraq and love the ones that attacked us on 911. Just leave your dental records so your family can identify you..they usually don't leave much after they get through with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2006 What about their troops that will never see their familys? Love is impartial, love conquers all. I see death on both sides, when has it occured under the sun that two wrongs ever made a right? Jesus said. even the wicked love their families and friends but it is to no avail.-- one must learn to have love for all, even their enemies Jesus said. You see both sides filled their hearts with hate, this is the road that lead ones away from the true living God, Love , Leads one to him. So i ask, can one be killing his brother and still love him? And if we have hatred in our hearts just as our enemies and return death for death we become our enemy. Absolutely right on kjw47! Yours is God's message for this violent world. People need to hear this, especially those professing to have a Christian outlook on life. Thank you friend, yes God showed his rage towards this world of violence in Noahs day, 99% minimum of all mankind living died by the judgement of God, and God compared these last days to Noahs day saying that the world took no note. Why, Because the teachers of these humans did not know God. And the same will apply now. War is done in hatred, yet they try to tell us they do it in love.Both sides are told it is out of love that these violent acts occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2006 As idealistic as you sound, Jesus also acknowldged that we live in a fallen world. Futhermore, we know that God does not change and that Christ IS God, therefore why do we see war supported in the Old Testament but suddenly despised in the New? Doesn't make any sense. Instead, Jesus is speaking of personal holiness, that as Christians we are to live at peace when we can. The purpose of a Government is to deliever justice, and war is sometimes an act of justice against a people or leadership of a people that have done an unjust thing. The love of Christ does not prevent such justice from occuring...in fact, it would be unloving not to do it. Christ did not come to establish a utopia...if He did, why didn't He or any of His followers speak out against the Roman expansion campaigns that were going on during His time? Hi friend. God judged those people in the ot to death directly through his prophets, and alot of the times angels did the killing, or he confused them to kill themselves. Then He sent us Jesus who taught all to love ones enemy, so i ask you can you blow the head off of someone you love on the orders of men who in Gods word clearly shows that in the last days ( if you believe we are here ) In his book of revelations God tells us all that-- satan will lead all kingdoms ( govts ) against God. So then if we are taught that these govts are actually Gods then why will satan be leading them against God??????? And why will there outcome be this Daniel 2:44. God does not crush what is his. And as i said, these are filling somes hearts with hatred for a brother who is decieved by satan, who then taught and filled his heart with hatred towards us. if we do as our enemy we are our enemy. The same Govt ( ours ) that sent brothers in christ to kill brothers in christ in ww1,ww2, the revolutionary war, the civil war. You see the Jesus i know would never let that be. It is LOVE that conquers all , not bombs or bullets. What you don't seem to understand is that people like AlZarqawi do not respond to love. What are you a misplaced hippy? This a man who beheaded Amricans..These people did nothing wrong. I can't believe this. We are suppose to just take what the enemy gives out and do nothing. Okay...tell you what...why don't you go over to Iraq and love the ones that attacked us on 911. Just leave your dental records so your family can identify you..they usually don't leave much after they get through with you. God doesnt look down on this world and see just americans, he sees a human race within all nations. And in your reasoning what about all the brothers in christ who killed each other in the other wars i pointed out, could there hearts be moved by love or was killing them on the orders of men the answer. And what do our bombs and bullets leave of them???? two wrongs never will make a right. I can see the hatred building in your heart, Jesus taught us the opposite. Who do we as christians love and listen to first, men whos hearts are filled with hatred or Jesus, one cannot do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 As idealistic as you sound, Jesus also acknowldged that we live in a fallen world. Futhermore, we know that God does not change and that Christ IS God, therefore why do we see war supported in the Old Testament but suddenly despised in the New? Doesn't make any sense. Instead, Jesus is speaking of personal holiness, that as Christians we are to live at peace when we can. The purpose of a Government is to deliever justice, and war is sometimes an act of justice against a people or leadership of a people that have done an unjust thing. The love of Christ does not prevent such justice from occuring...in fact, it would be unloving not to do it. Christ did not come to establish a utopia...if He did, why didn't He or any of His followers speak out against the Roman expansion campaigns that were going on during His time? Hi friend. God judged those people in the ot to death directly through his prophets, and alot of the times angels did the killing, or he confused them to kill themselves. Then He sent us Jesus who taught all to love ones enemy, so i ask you can you blow the head off of someone you love on the orders of men who in Gods word clearly shows that in the last days ( if you believe we are here ) In his book of revelations God tells us all that-- satan will lead all kingdoms ( govts ) against God. So then if we are taught that these govts are actually Gods then why will satan be leading them against God??????? And why will there outcome be this Daniel 2:44. God does not crush what is his. And as i said, these are filling somes hearts with hatred for a brother who is decieved by satan, who then taught and filled his heart with hatred towards us. if we do as our enemy we are our enemy. The same Govt ( ours ) that sent brothers in christ to kill brothers in christ in ww1,ww2, the revolutionary war, the civil war. You see the Jesus i know would never let that be. It is LOVE that conquers all , not bombs or bullets. When Jesus was talking "loving your enemy," He was not teaching pacifism. Jesus was talking about how to respond to personal insults. He was not establishing foregin policy. "Love your enemy" was not a prohibition against all violence, but had to do with how we manage interpersonal relationships. If my enemey slaps me on the cheek (insults me), I am not to return insult for insult. This has nothing to do with the context of war, and does apply to how a government responds to viable threat to its citizens. That does not mean I cannot defend my family to death if need be. It is a false premise that responding to violence with violence makes both entities morally equivalent. As for governments belonging to God... Here is what the Bible says: Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. (Romans 13:1-4) You cannot equate the current governments with those nations that Satan will decieve after his 1,000 year imprisonment. The context is completely different, and they will be completely different governments than what we have today. You cannot compare our situation today, with what will be in existence after the millennium. They two completely dynamics. The fact remains that our government's responsibility to the safety of its citizens, and that includes going to war if necessary. The Bible is not anti-war. Pacifism is not Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2006 As idealistic as you sound, Jesus also acknowldged that we live in a fallen world. Futhermore, we know that God does not change and that Christ IS God, therefore why do we see war supported in the Old Testament but suddenly despised in the New? Doesn't make any sense. Instead, Jesus is speaking of personal holiness, that as Christians we are to live at peace when we can. The purpose of a Government is to deliever justice, and war is sometimes an act of justice against a people or leadership of a people that have done an unjust thing. The love of Christ does not prevent such justice from occuring...in fact, it would be unloving not to do it. Christ did not come to establish a utopia...if He did, why didn't He or any of His followers speak out against the Roman expansion campaigns that were going on during His time? Hi friend. God judged those people in the ot to death directly through his prophets, and alot of the times angels did the killing, or he confused them to kill themselves. Then He sent us Jesus who taught all to love ones enemy, so i ask you can you blow the head off of someone you love on the orders of men who in Gods word clearly shows that in the last days ( if you believe we are here ) In his book of revelations God tells us all that-- satan will lead all kingdoms ( govts ) against God. So then if we are taught that these govts are actually Gods then why will satan be leading them against God??????? And why will there outcome be this Daniel 2:44. God does not crush what is his. And as i said, these are filling somes hearts with hatred for a brother who is decieved by satan, who then taught and filled his heart with hatred towards us. if we do as our enemy we are our enemy. The same Govt ( ours ) that sent brothers in christ to kill brothers in christ in ww1,ww2, the revolutionary war, the civil war. You see the Jesus i know would never let that be. It is LOVE that conquers all , not bombs or bullets. When Jesus was talking "loving your enemy," He was not teaching pacifism. Jesus was talking about how to respond to personal insults. He was not establishing foregin policy. "Love your enemy" was not a prohibition against all violence, but had to do with how we manage interpersonal relationships. If my enemey slaps me on the cheek (insults me), I am not to return insult for insult. This has nothing to do with the context of war, and does apply to how a government responds to viable threat to its citizens. That does not mean I cannot defend my family to death if need be. It is a false premise that responding to violence with violence makes both entities morally equivalent. As for governments belonging to God... Here is what the Bible says: Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. (Romans 13:1-4) You cannot equate the current governments with those nations that Satan will decieve after his 1,000 year imprisonment. The context is completely different, and they will be completely different governments than what we have today. You cannot compare our situation today, with what will be in existence after the millennium. They two completely dynamics. The fact remains that our government's responsibility to the safety of its citizens, and that includes going to war if necessary. The Bible is not anti-war. Pacifism is not Christian. Gods word teaches us that in Noahs day God judged 99% of the human race to death, not life. Why/ VIOLENCE, and also compared these last days to Noahs day. God hates violence, so do his children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2006 *sigh* I see no logic in what you are saying. You didn't respond to what I said. Why did God use people to kill in the OT but all of a sudden change His mind and become a pacifist? You did not answer this. Likewiswe, you said God killed...if God is a pacifist, why did He kill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giaour Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 179 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,941 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1964 Share Posted June 11, 2006 If killing one monster saves millions then hand me the gun. Can you imagine life if Hitler was allowed to continue without people fighting back? If only I had a shot at him BEFORE the concentration camps were established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.01 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted June 11, 2006 If killing one monster saves millions then hand me the gun. Can you imagine life if Hitler was allowed to continue without people fighting back? If only I had a shot at him BEFORE the concentration camps were established. Thank you Giaour. That was an excellent point. Also praying as this storm approaches your state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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