rtwo Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1978 Share Posted June 3, 2007 I learned the following teaching from a wonderful and gifted Bible teacher and it is the only teaching on this subject that I believe is consistent with God's character and His revealed Word. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and His work is to testify to Jesus. "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" John 15:26 Therefore blasphemy against the Holy Spirit who IS truth, is to deliberately choose to disbelieve His witness, i.e. that Jesus is of and from the Father and has come in the the flesh, died for the sins of the whole world and was resurrected and ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of the Father. This blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin because if one doesn't believe in Jesus' atoning sacrifice for sin, then there is no further forgiveness of sins available. Logically, then, the sin of disbelieving that Jesus died to forgive all sin is the one and only sin that is unforgivable. Over the years I have heard many people expound on what is this sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that is unforgivable. This is the only understanding that makes sense and is consistent with God's character and His revealed Word. All others imply that God's plan of salvation is less than perfect. That somehow God didn't factor into His plan of salvation this sin or that sin and that He can be taken by surprise. I cannot ever hear God saying: "Oh dear, Ruth, I never thought that you'd do that sin, I really didn't plan for that. Sorry, Ruth, Jesus' sacrifice for sin really can't cover THAT one." Apart from all else such a view takes away from God's omniscience and omnipotence. I have met believers who live in fear of having knowingly or unknowingly committed the unforgivable sin. Such fear is contrary to God's Word: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1. In Jesus, Ruth Though it does sound logical, it doesn't fit the context of what Jesus said, and why He said it. That may indeed be a part of it, but I think the sin was defined by the context in which Jesus chose to discuss it. Without the context, I suppose you could attach whatever meaning makes the most sense - but in context, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is, as has been stated, attributing the works of the Spirit to Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lovinghim4ever Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is, as has been stated, attributing the works of the Spirit to Satan. I do NOT claim to have all the answers concerning this example, but I relate it to you as it has been related to me . . . Many years ago my Dad and his priest went out on my Dad's shrimp boat. Dad and this priest got into a conversation about "speaking in tongues." The priest told my Dad that "speaking in tongues" is of the devil. The priest eventually died of throat cancer. (true story) Now, I cannot say this man died of throat cancer just because of what he said about speaking in tongues. That's for God to say, however I also don't necessarily believe in mere coincidence. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is to say that He is empowerd by the devil instead by God. If someone truly blasphemes the Holy Spirit they don't care enough to inquire about it. Therefore, I believe anyone who is genuinely concerned about not wanting to blaspheme the Holy Spirit hasn't actually blasphemed Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methinkshe Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 679 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/02/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2007 I learned the following teaching from a wonderful and gifted Bible teacher and it is the only teaching on this subject that I believe is consistent with God's character and His revealed Word. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and His work is to testify to Jesus. "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" John 15:26 Therefore blasphemy against the Holy Spirit who IS truth, is to deliberately choose to disbelieve His witness, i.e. that Jesus is of and from the Father and has come in the the flesh, died for the sins of the whole world and was resurrected and ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of the Father. This blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin because if one doesn't believe in Jesus' atoning sacrifice for sin, then there is no further forgiveness of sins available. Logically, then, the sin of disbelieving that Jesus died to forgive all sin is the one and only sin that is unforgivable. Over the years I have heard many people expound on what is this sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that is unforgivable. This is the only understanding that makes sense and is consistent with God's character and His revealed Word. All others imply that God's plan of salvation is less than perfect. That somehow God didn't factor into His plan of salvation this sin or that sin and that He can be taken by surprise. I cannot ever hear God saying: "Oh dear, Ruth, I never thought that you'd do that sin, I really didn't plan for that. Sorry, Ruth, Jesus' sacrifice for sin really can't cover THAT one." Apart from all else such a view takes away from God's omniscience and omnipotence. I have met believers who live in fear of having knowingly or unknowingly committed the unforgivable sin. Such fear is contrary to God's Word: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1. In Jesus, Ruth Though it does sound logical, it doesn't fit the context of what Jesus said, and why He said it. That may indeed be a part of it, but I think the sin was defined by the context in which Jesus chose to discuss it. Without the context, I suppose you could attach whatever meaning makes the most sense - but in context, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is, as has been stated, attributing the works of the Spirit to Satan. If that is a true understanding, then I would hazard a guess that an awful lot of believers, before they were born again, committed the unforgivable sin. Can you honestly say, without any doubt, that while you were still in unbelief, that you NEVER, EVER, EVER, knowingly or otherwise, attributed to Satan a work of God (and/or the Holy Spirit - they are, let us never forget, three in one and one in three)? Did you, for instance, ever believe in evolution and that God did not create the world but that it formed itself through random chance? Would this not be to attribute the work of God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - to Satan? For blind chance has no identity and whatever is not of God is of the devil. Then by your understanding, you can never be forgiven and your faith in Jesus is in vain. And even if you, personally, did not attribute God's creation to Satan there are many other believers who have, in their unbelieving state. Think of the endless possibilities that a person has, whilst in unbelief, to attribute the works of God to Satan. Are you really claiming that such a person cannot be forgiven when they come to believe in the Lord Jesus and repent of their sins? Are you telling me that murder is forgiven, rape is forgiven, but if a person in their ignorance and unbelief once said that such and such was not the work of God the Holy Spirit, it was the work of Satan, that they cannot be forgiven that sin, and are therefore condemned to eternal damnation? I guess I'd better give up right now, in that case. For there is no way that I can claim for certainty that I have never, when I was living in ignorance and unbelief, attributed a work of God to Satan. Sorry, but I do not accept your understadning. It conflicts with the WHOLE counsel of Scripture. In Jesus, Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtwo Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1978 Share Posted June 3, 2007 I learned the following teaching from a wonderful and gifted Bible teacher and it is the only teaching on this subject that I believe is consistent with God's character and His revealed Word. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and His work is to testify to Jesus. "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" John 15:26 Therefore blasphemy against the Holy Spirit who IS truth, is to deliberately choose to disbelieve His witness, i.e. that Jesus is of and from the Father and has come in the the flesh, died for the sins of the whole world and was resurrected and ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of the Father. This blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin because if one doesn't believe in Jesus' atoning sacrifice for sin, then there is no further forgiveness of sins available. Logically, then, the sin of disbelieving that Jesus died to forgive all sin is the one and only sin that is unforgivable. Over the years I have heard many people expound on what is this sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that is unforgivable. This is the only understanding that makes sense and is consistent with God's character and His revealed Word. All others imply that God's plan of salvation is less than perfect. That somehow God didn't factor into His plan of salvation this sin or that sin and that He can be taken by surprise. I cannot ever hear God saying: "Oh dear, Ruth, I never thought that you'd do that sin, I really didn't plan for that. Sorry, Ruth, Jesus' sacrifice for sin really can't cover THAT one." Apart from all else such a view takes away from God's omniscience and omnipotence. I have met believers who live in fear of having knowingly or unknowingly committed the unforgivable sin. Such fear is contrary to God's Word: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1. In Jesus, Ruth Though it does sound logical, it doesn't fit the context of what Jesus said, and why He said it. That may indeed be a part of it, but I think the sin was defined by the context in which Jesus chose to discuss it. Without the context, I suppose you could attach whatever meaning makes the most sense - but in context, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is, as has been stated, attributing the works of the Spirit to Satan. If that is a true understanding, then I would hazard a guess that an awful lot of believers, before they were born again, committed the unforgivable sin. Can you honestly say, without any doubt, that while you were still in unbelief, that you NEVER, EVER, EVER, knowingly or otherwise, attributed to Satan a work of God (and/or the Holy Spirit - they are, let us never forget, three in one and one in three)? Did you, for instance, ever believe in evolution and that God did not create the world but that it formed itself through random chance? Would this not be to attribute the work of God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - to Satan? For blind chance has no identity and whatever is not of God is of the devil. Then by your understanding, you can never be forgiven and your faith in Jesus is in vain. And even if you, personally, did not attribute God's creation to Satan there are many other believers who have, in their unbelieving state. Think of the endless possibilities that a person has, whilst in unbelief, to attribute the works of God to Satan. Are you really claiming that such a person cannot be forgiven when they come to believe in the Lord Jesus and repent of their sins? Are you telling me that murder is forgiven, rape is forgiven, but if a person in their ignorance and unbelief once said that such and such was not the work of God the Holy Spirit, it was the work of Satan, that they cannot be forgiven that sin, and are therefore condemned to eternal damnation? I guess I'd better give up right now, in that case. For there is no way that I can claim for certainty that I have never, when I was living in ignorance and unbelief, attributed a work of God to Satan. Sorry, but I do not accept your understadning. It conflicts with the WHOLE counsel of Scripture. In Jesus, Ruth Before I was a Christian, I didn't believe in Satan -- How, then, would I have attributed the Spirit's works to the devil (of course, I also began to walk in the Way at about 7 ... so it's a little different)? I'd point out, though, that Jesus appears to be giving those who did blaspheme another chance, if you look at the actual passage. Evolution, etc... No -- I don't think these things would be considered blaspheming the Spirit. Again, looking at this in context, this doesn't appear to be the case. This is all about context. This isn't purely my "understanding" that leads me to say this, but a careful look at the context of the verse and passage. Taking it out of context, you can make it mean anything you want -- but alas, we can't do that and gain proper understanding. By ignoring the context, and adding it in after supplying a definition, you're essentially mixing the biblical conversation into nonsense. Having said that, I looked again at the overall point of your first post, and I think, ultimately, we agree. We're just stating it differently, and my definition is a bit broader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giaour Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 179 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,941 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1964 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary - Cite This Source Blasphemy In the sense of speaking evil of God this word is found in Ps. 74:18; Isa. 52:5; Rom. 2:24; Rev. 13:1, 6; 16:9, 11, 21. It denotes also any kind of calumny, or evil-speaking, or abuse (1 Kings 21:10; Acts 13:45; 18:6, etc.). Our Lord was accused of blasphemy when he claimed to be the Son of God (Matt. 26:65; comp. Matt. 9:3; Mark 2:7). They who deny his Messiahship blaspheme Jesus (Luke 22:65; John 10:36). Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (Matt. 12:31, 32; Mark 3:28, 29; Luke 12:10) is regarded by some as a continued and obstinate rejection of the gospel, and hence is an unpardonable sin, simply because as long as a sinner remains in unbelief he voluntarily excludes himself from pardon. Others regard the expression as designating the sin of attributing to the power of Satan those miracles which Christ performed, or generally those works which are the result of the Spirit's agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2007 I merged this thread with the "Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" thread because they deal with the same issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ILoveJesusChrist Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I am a strong believer in Jesus and have accepted him as my Saviour But at times I have become extremely angry and cursed in his name and sometimes at him and God. It is terrible and embarrassing and oh how I regret it...will I be forgiven for my lapse of reason and loose tongue. My faith is strong through my anger, I just shoot off saying terrible things. I love Jesus, Thanks everybody Much love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methinkshe Posted June 4, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 679 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/02/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2007 I am a strong believer in Jesus and have accepted him as my Saviour But at times I have become extremely angry and cursed in his name and sometimes at him and God. It is terrible and embarrassing and oh how I regret it...will I be forgiven for my lapse of reason and loose tongue. My faith is strong through my anger, I just shoot off saying terrible things. I love Jesus, Thanks everybody Much love I have met so many dear Christians like you who have come under condemnation and fear and dread of having either knowingly or unknowingly committed the unpardonable sin. They live in a state of permanent fear. Their lives are wretched and miserable. How does this fit in with "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1.? It doesn't. Therefore, IF (and there is) NO condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, then condemnation can ONLY exist for those who are NOT in Christ Jesus. And who are those who are NOT in Christ Jesus? Those who have not believed what the Spirit of Truth testifies concerning Jesus, and repented and been born again of the Spirit. This is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth that proceeds from the Father, to disbelieve His testimony concerning the Lord Jesus Christ, which is, in effect, to call the Holy Spirit a liar. Those who are IN Jesus (i.e. who have believed the testimony of the Holy Spirit concerning Jesus) need have no fear that they have committed an unpardonable sin. Peace and blessings in our dearest Lord Jesus Christ, Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lovinghim4ever Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I have met so many dear Christians like you who have come under condemnation and fear and dread of having either knowingly or unknowingly committed the unpardonable sin. They live in a state of permanent fear. Their lives are wretched and miserable. How does this fit in with "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1.? It doesn't. Therefore, IF (and there is) NO condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, then condemnation can ONLY exist for those who are NOT in Christ Jesus. And who are those who are NOT in Christ Jesus? Those who have not believed what the Spirit of Truth testifies concerning Jesus, and repented and been born again of the Spirit. This is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth that proceeds from the Father, to disbelieve His testimony concerning the Lord Jesus Christ, which is, in effect, to call the Holy Spirit a liar. Those who are IN Jesus (i.e. who have believed the testimony of the Holy Spirit concerning Jesus) need have no fear that they have committed an unpardonable sin. Peace and blessings in our dearest Lord Jesus Christ, Ruth Thanks Ruth! What an AWESOME response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ILoveJesusChrist Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Thank you all for your responses I have prayed for repentance and do stand with God! Thanks and love, Bye David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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