Mark777 Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2006 (edited) OK people, I thought that I would start a thread that solely concentrates on Martin Luther and what he had to say about the nature of salvation and the Christian life. Please include anything of interest yourselves and lets not be mean to one another, but loving. My First Quote is for "Christian Liberty" by Martin Luther: " Let us examine the subject on a deeper and less simple principle. Man is composed of a twofold nature, a spiritual and a bodily. As regards the spiritual nature, which they name the soul, he is called the spiritual, inward, new man; as regards the bodily nature, which they name the flesh, he is called the fleshly, outward, old man. The Apostle speaks of this: "Though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day" (2 Cor. iv. 16). The result of this diversity is that in the Scriptures opposing statements are made concerning the same man, the fact being that in the same man these two men are opposed to one another; the flesh lusting against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh (Gal. v. 17). ------------------- I believe the so called "warning" passages - if they pertain to true believers - are referring to the old man - the flesh that is sinfull and is going to die. While the new man is eternal and incorruptible. Martin Luther, as I will show in time, believed the same. (I will add to this as time allows but feel free to add also.) Mark Edited June 11, 2006 by Mark777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2006 I am still trying to figure out from the quotes you have posted where Luther says we cannot fall into apostasy. Certainly the portion of his commentary on Galatians I just posted on the OSAS thread disagrees with your view completely. But I guess you know more about Luther than Luther himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 st. Worm, Lets calm down and not start the insults here OK. There is no reason for us to make comments like, "But I guess you know more about Luther than Luther himself?" I could easily comment back "no, I just know luther better than you." Lets stop this form of communication. I believe you are my brother in Christ so I am going to make the commitment to stop talking in an unloving manner. I believe differently than you and I am going to communicate the details of my belief. Beyond that, I will not respond to insulting statements. The last thread I started was closed due to the passions and insults of other participants. Please respect this thread and lets have a good discussion. I will return in a day and work on this thread. I have some good material to look at. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 Martin Luther; "...and that a Christian man needs no work, no law, for his salvation; for by faith he is free from all law, and in perfect freedom does gratuitously all that he does, seeking nothing either of profit or of salvation--since by the grace of God he is already saved and rich in all things through his faith--but solely that which is well-pleasing to God." Luther is saying that for a Christian salvation isn't an issue any more. He is free of law. He doesn't "need" to work. Works flow out of His new nature that loves to please God. That is how Luther is saying here that salvation cannot be lost. He is describing the new man. Eternal Salvation has been obtained. Now the spirit of a righteous nature acts out its sanctification in joy. " How would falling into apostacy work? The same laws that govern sin in the flesh cover spiritual sin. A believer is free from the condemnation of sin. It has been paid for by Christ. But, I ask - where is God in all of this? I will tell you where. He is in the believer, changing him, keeping him in His grace. God is talking to his spirit and empowering him to do righteousness. He has promised us that he will keep us and deliver us to Himself. More later. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted June 12, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2006 Unfortunately Mark you are trying to misuse Luther's quotes in order to prove your point about OSAS. Luther clearly taught that the new man lived in conjunction with the old man, the sin nature which never goes away. Luther believed that the believer lived as 100% saint and 100% sinner. You might want to do a little more study about Luther and Lutheranism before you try to re-define the views for the millions of Lutherans around the world. Nothing in the quotes you are citing tell anyone what Luther believed on this issue. In fact, they don't even address it. And please, don't offer some "lets play nice" gesture if you are going to mislead people about the Lutheran faith. Believe what you want, but don't tell Lutherans what they believe and we'll get along fine. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 12, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 Sw: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 14, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 14, 2006 (edited) I am going to let this thread go. I do not want to offend anyone. The Scriptures tell us not to offend others by our actions. This thread is not a necessity so....Martin, see you later! Mark Edited June 14, 2006 by Mark777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted June 14, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 14, 2006 Since the OP is bowing out I am closing this. It is close to something I closed last week. It has run its course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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