nebula Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Here is what is disturbing me about this conversation. Someoen asks for meaning to the dream. The first reply is this: 2 Chronicles 16:9 "For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars." Job 34:21 "For his eyes are upon the ways of man, and he seeth all his goings." Proverbs 5:21 "For the ways of man are before the eyes of the LORD, and he pondereth all his goings." Proverbs 15:3 "The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good." Jeremiah 16:17 "For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes." Jeremiah 32:19 "Great in cousel, and mighty in work: for thine eyes are open upon all the ways of the sons of men: to give every one according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings:" Zechariah 4:10 "For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and from through the whole earth." When I read this dream about an eye in the moon and a bright light, it made me think about how that the Lord is looking down on us, beholding the good and the bad and how that he is still in control. Though he may be allowing us to have our own way at times, doing things that are evil in his sight, those days will come to a close according to his time table. I am not claiming this is an interpretation of the dream from God, but it is what came to my mind in reading it. The dream recalled to one person's mind a bunch of Scriptures. What's the problem? Someone else responds: The moon reflects light from the sun. The moon is likened to the Church, we reflect 'light' from Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. Hey, I've heard this comparison given in sermons before. Is it adding to the Word? Is it changing the Word? Sounds in agreement to me. How about you? The fact that the moon was dull is that it is not reflecting the light as it should. Something is wrong here in that the Church is not being Christ-like. Any disagreement with this? Your friend looked hard at the moon and then it slowly opened up. As it opened she could see the eye looking straight at them and the light around it got brighter and brighter. This is the opening of our spiritual eyes. When the moon's eye opened it became brighter and brighter...thus being what it should be as opposed to what it shouldn't -dull. We need to look hard within the Church because there are problems, it is not a pattern and reflection of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Church needs to open up its spiritual eyes that it may become brighter and brighter. The Church needs to reflect Jesus Christ. Again - do you have any disagreement with this? Is there anything stated here that is unScriptural? Aren't we to search our hearts? Isn't that the same as opening our eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2006 *sigh* There is a difference between saying, "This dream reminds me of..." or "It could be this...." than "This is what it means." At the point you begin to interpret a dream, even if what you say sounds good, you better be sure and have scriptural backing that God is leading you to an interpretation. This is, once again, the problem with placing experience above scripture; it always leads to pragmatism. "Well it doesn't matter how you get the interpretation, as long as it sounds good." That simply isn't true...you have to be led by the Holy Spirit in order to make an interpretation...anything else simply is not a proper interpretation. WHy are Christians becomming so accepting of anything that sounds "spiritual"? Just because it sounds or look spiritual doesn't mean it is. We are to test EVERYTHING. I tested these posts...not a single one was an accurate interpretation (because no interpretation is to be had that I know of). They liken similarities, offer what the dreams could mean, or show scriptural parallels, but they don't offer an actual interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 *sigh* There is a difference between saying, "This dream reminds me of..." or "It could be this...." than "This is what it means." At the point you begin to interpret a dream, even if what you say sounds good, you better be sure and have scriptural backing that God is leading you to an interpretation. This is, once again, the problem with placing experience above scripture; it always leads to pragmatism. "Well it doesn't matter how you get the interpretation, as long as it sounds good." That simply isn't true...you have to be led by the Holy Spirit in order to make an interpretation...anything else simply is not a proper interpretation. WHy are Christians becomming so accepting of anything that sounds "spiritual"? Just because it sounds or look spiritual doesn't mean it is. We are to test EVERYTHING. I tested these posts...not a single one was an accurate interpretation (because no interpretation is to be had that I know of). They liken similarities, offer what the dreams could mean, or show scriptural parallels, but they don't offer an actual interpretation. And who is to say that the Holy Spirit didn't lead this person to the interpretation of this very strange dream? To assume that this person isn't led by the Holy Spirit because you don't like the way it is worded is going on your own personal feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2006 *sigh* There is a difference between saying, "This dream reminds me of..." or "It could be this...." than "This is what it means." At the point you begin to interpret a dream, even if what you say sounds good, you better be sure and have scriptural backing that God is leading you to an interpretation. This is, once again, the problem with placing experience above scripture; it always leads to pragmatism. "Well it doesn't matter how you get the interpretation, as long as it sounds good." That simply isn't true...you have to be led by the Holy Spirit in order to make an interpretation...anything else simply is not a proper interpretation. WHy are Christians becomming so accepting of anything that sounds "spiritual"? Just because it sounds or look spiritual doesn't mean it is. We are to test EVERYTHING. I tested these posts...not a single one was an accurate interpretation (because no interpretation is to be had that I know of). They liken similarities, offer what the dreams could mean, or show scriptural parallels, but they don't offer an actual interpretation. And who is to say that the Holy Spirit didn't lead this person to the interpretation of this very strange dream? To assume that this person isn't led by the Holy Spirit because you don't like the way it is worded is going on your own personal feelings. Once again: There was no initial feeling of the Holy Spirit as Felix admitted; if God meant this dream to be interpreted, why the delay? Not once do we see that in scripture. Had there been an initial feeling, a claim of authority in interpretation, and it fit with biblical models, then there would have been no issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I agree this dream is not of a Godly spirit and was not meant for interpretation..anyone who has attempted to interpret this dream is going on assumption as far as I can SEE..no arguments on my part regarding these last statements..smiles to you and God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 19, 2006 *sigh* There is a difference between saying, "This dream reminds me of..." or "It could be this...." than "This is what it means." At the point you begin to interpret a dream, even if what you say sounds good, you better be sure and have scriptural backing that God is leading you to an interpretation. This is, once again, the problem with placing experience above scripture; it always leads to pragmatism. "Well it doesn't matter how you get the interpretation, as long as it sounds good." That simply isn't true...you have to be led by the Holy Spirit in order to make an interpretation...anything else simply is not a proper interpretation. WHy are Christians becomming so accepting of anything that sounds "spiritual"? Just because it sounds or look spiritual doesn't mean it is. We are to test EVERYTHING. I tested these posts...not a single one was an accurate interpretation (because no interpretation is to be had that I know of). They liken similarities, offer what the dreams could mean, or show scriptural parallels, but they don't offer an actual interpretation. I wish you would stop accusing me of "placing experience above Scripture." It's just as annoying as my Into. to Bible teacher accusing me of my raising my hands in worship during chapel service as a means to draw attention to my self - when in fact I had to overcome being self-conscious over standing out like that. Everytime someone mentions hearing from the Lord, I see you and certain others decrying this as being the Lord. I have yet to see you acknowledge anything spiritual-related as being of the Lord. So, instead of "this" dream, I need to ask you about the dreams you claim to have interpreted. I would love to hear how the Lord spoke to you (or how you heard from the Lord) concerning these other dreams you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2006 I agree this dream is not of a Godly spirit and was not meant for interpretation..anyone who has attempted to interpret this dream is going on assumption as far as I can SEE..no arguments on my part regarding these last statements..smiles to you and God bless Excellent. That is what I was trying to get at....there is nothing wrong with interpretation, we just need to test the interpretation when it comes. Everytime someone mentions hearing from the Lord, I see you and certain others decrying this as being the Lord. I have yet to see you acknowledge anything spiritual-related as being of the Lord. For one, using scriptural analysis to look at an interpretation is spiritual, so i don't know why you haven't seen me do anything spiritually related. Second, I have never come down on someone for claiming to hear from the Lord or have an experience. What i have always said is that these things must be backed up by scriptural teachings. In other words, Joseph Smith claimed to hear from the Spirit, but His claim was not scripturally sound...thus his claim was wrong. Paul claimed to hear from the Spirit and write from the Spirit, but he was also able to back this up by appealing to what others were saying (who had witnessed Jesus) and by Holy Writ. Even Jesus, though He didn't need to, validated much of what He said by appealing to scripture (prophecies, teachings, proper interpretations, etc). In other words, I have never said it is wrong to speak in the Spirit; I have said it is wrong to do so when there is no scriptural precedence for what is being said or it contradicts what scripture teaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 19, 2006 And again you refuse to share about hearing from the Lord or interpreting the dreams you say you have interpreted. This doesn't instill confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 19, 2006 For the record, I highly respect your knowledge of the Scriptures, ancient texts and debating skills. This little matter of putting faith into practice, though, is where we keep bumping heads. It's the "in the world, not of the word" and "faith/works" debates all over again. What is considered "in the world" to one is "of the world" to another, and vice versa (see meat sacrificed to idols). "I have faith" . . . "I have works" . . . my works evidence my faith . . . works aren't needed for faith to be . . . no works, no faith . . . no faith, works mean nothing . . . and on and on (you know how the debates go). The point here is balance. There comes a point when one has to take one's nose out of the Book and start applying it to life. For what meaning have the Scriptures if they are nothing more than head knowledge? (Even the demons believe. . . .) Even the best of scholars can have the wrong interpretation of Scripture (see the Pharisees and Sadducees). So, what is the balance? You say you know the dream is not of God because of your experience with interpreting dreams before (whatever that means), your knowledge the Scripture, your study of the Scripture, and your feeling of the Holy Spirit. Truthfully, about this dream - I wouldn't know. I don't have the gift of interpreting. But I still fail to see anything Biblically incorrect with what Felix originally posted about the dream. Felix may not have had the confidence you deemed necessary for the word to genuinely of the Lord - but does the Lord require such confidence. How many signs did Gideon need before he was confident that what was spoken to him by the angel was the Lord? I tremble every time I speak a revelation I have, for I have no way of knowing if that was the Lord or my active imagination; yet so often it is affirmed that the word I gave was indeed a confirmation of things the Lord had placed in their heart and such. So will you charge me with operating in the flesh because I don't have the corner market on wisdom and the breadth of confidence that one such as yourself has? I hope not! For if I relied on your wisdom and knowledge to know how to recognize the voice of the Lord, I would have given up hope a long, long time ago that I could ever know the voice of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 19, 2006 if God meant this dream to be interpreted, why the delay? Didn't Daniel have a delayed interpretation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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