7cworldwide Posted July 4, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1978 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Blessings to you CSLewis. You and your church have my prayers. I hope you'll consider signing the petition I mentioned earlier in this thread and let your other conservative brothers and sisters know about it, too. [ http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ECUSA_a...tion_of_Christ/ ] Shalom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted July 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2006 Dear C.S. Lewis: Thanx for all the great books you have penned. And recently I viewed your Chronicles of Narnia on the silver screen. Outstanding. However - and there's always however, yes? - however when you remain within an apostate organization, much of your tithes & offerings (in the normal procedure of things) go directly to its denominational headquarters, headquarters which promote unscriptural & anti-Christian policies. Should you, C.S., as an well-known & talented Christian, continue to support & encourage the policies of antichrist? To ask is to answer, yes? "Come out of her, My children, and I will receive you...." P.S. I think - and it's only my personal opinion - that your best volume was "Mere Christianity." Thanx a million for it! httP://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkd Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I AM REPULSED. Apostacy. I can't think of any other word. Episcopals do not reject Jesus Christ and it is silly to misrepresent the convention in this manner research and understand what their position is before you attempt to remove the percieved spec in their eye. I offer this as encouragement to research before condeming where was the convention, what was the agenda, how did the media frame the questions understand the issue and please do not mimmick what pharisees offer us faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted July 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted July 4, 2006 The ironic part of this is that the ECUSA are the ones that have removed themselves. Part of our problem in the West, is that we think that somehow we are special or unique in the eyes of God. Really they should not be getting all of this attention. The Anglican union is not a European or American Christian group. The vast majority of Anglican Christians reside in Africa and are very conservative theologically. In fact the majority of Christians of all stripes do not live in the USA or Europe, but live in the Southern Hemisphere, they are the future of Christianity, not the secular materialist West. There are more Anglicans in Nairobi Kenya, one city in one country in Africa, than there are total members of the ECUSA in all of the United States. The ECUSA is simply a little subgroup, which has decided to leave Christianity. Long ago their Bishop Spong laid this course out, how Christianity must change itself, part of this change he called for was a renunciation of the fact of the physical resurrection of Christ, he was not excommunicated or put in bad standing because of these written and published words. But even within the ECUSA there are solid believers such as our brother Lewis above, there is really no doubt that these congregations will eventually leave. The original CSLewis was an Anglican, so we know that this group produces wonderful gifts the Christian church. But the true believers in the US are going to have to be ready to sacrifice their material things, such as those beautiful Episcopal Church buildings, as the ECUSA will fight to the death for those. Which makes sense as that is what they are really about. But it will be worth it for the true Anglicans living in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted July 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I AM REPULSED. Apostacy. I can't think of any other word. Episcopals do not reject Jesus Christ and it is silly to misrepresent the convention in this manner research and understand what their position is before you attempt to remove the percieved spec in their eye. I offer this as encouragement to research before condeming where was the convention, what was the agenda, how did the media frame the questions understand the issue and please do not mimmick what pharisees offer us faith. Yes they did, read the links read the notes from the convention. You cannot reject Jesus Christ as the only God, as the only Lord and Savior for all humanity, and remain in the Christian faith. Certainly you can be part of another faith, or a new faith and that is acceptable. Spong put that forth quite some time ago as a road map for the ECUSA, and I think that is the direction they will go. I love the Unitarians they are great people but they are not Christians, and I think this is the direction the ECUSA will float toward, if they are not already there. It has nothing to do with being a Pharisee, to stand up for faith in Christ, to not deny our Lord and Savior. To claim that Christ is the only Way to God, just as Jesus Himself claimed will always cause offense to some, and you have to decide where you want to stand. Christ had very strong words for those who would deny Him in front of men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted July 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Well I would like to believe otherwise, but I can't. By a 70% margin the delegates failed to vote or even consider a simple resolution claiming that the ECUSA believes that Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life, it is not rocket science. The language of the bible was considered to "exclusionary" for them. They have rejected a public declaration of faith in Christ! Here is the article from Virtue on Line an Anglican site. I would like to see what you have seen otherwise? Why did they refuse to even vote on this, for the proposition that Jesus Christ is the "only name by which any person may be saved"? If we are embarrassed of the bible, if we are embarrassed of the words of Christ we are in deep trouble. Do you deny that a Bishop of the ECUSA for decades has publicly claimed that Christ did not rise from the dead, without consequence? COLUMBUS, OH: Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ By Hans Zeiger VirtueOnline Correspondent www.virtueonline.org COLUMBUS, OHIO (6/20/06)-The House of Deputies of the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church today overwhelmingly refused to even consider a resolution that affirmed Jesus Christ as the "only name by which any person may be saved." "This type of language was used in 1920s and 1930s to alienate the type of people who were executed. It was called the Holocaust. I understand the intent, but I ask you to allow the discharge to stay," said the Rev. Eugene C. McDowell, a graduate of Yale Divinity School and Canon Theologian for the Diocese of North Carolina. The convention's Committee on Evangelism first heard the resolution and discharged it to the chagrin of that committee's chairman, the Rev. Colenzo Hubbard, a noted evangelist and director of Emmanuel Episcopal Center in the Diocese of West Tennessee. The Rev. Hubbard motioned to lift the resolution from the discharge list, but after heated debate, more than seven tenths of the House of Deputies rejected the motion. Drafted by the Rev. Guido Verbeck, rector of St. Paul's Episcopal Church in the Diocese of Western Louisiana, Resolution D058 declared the Episcopal Church's belief in an "unchanging commitment to Jesus Christ as the Son of God, the only name by which any person may be saved," and it acknowledged evangelism as "the solemn responsibility placed upon us to share Christ with all persons when we hear His words, 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No-one comes to the Father except through me' (John 14:6)." The resolution further affirmed "the substitutionary essence of the Cross and the manifestation of God's unlimited and unending love for all persons," while calling on the Episcopal Church to renew its Scripture-based witness to "all persons." The Rev. Hubbard said that he voted for the resolution in committee because of his simple responsibility as a Christian. Hubbard quoted several verses of Scripture to demonstrate his conviction. "I do agree that Jesus Christ is both the substitutionary essence of the Cross and the manifestation of God's unlimited and unending love for all persons," said Hubbard, once a star on the University of Alabama football team. Echoing Hubbard, Canon Dr. Kendall Harmon, a leading conservative in the denomination, argued for a "reaffirmation of what some have called 'the scandal of particularity' of the Cross." Judy Mayo from the Diocese of Fort Worth also opposed discharge. "My friends, this is a church convention, and this is the very essence of our faith. This may be the most important thing we deal with at this entire convention...Surely we can say together that Jesus Christ is Lord. And if we can't, we have no reason to be here." But liberals outnumbered Hubbard, Harman, and Mayo by far. The Rev. McDowell of the Diocese of North Carolina told VirtueOnline after the floor vote, "In the Episcopal Church we don't do up and down votes on Jesus Christ as Lord, and to do so is potentially a mean-spirited approach, to ask questions that aren't meant to be questions." McDowell explained that how one lives his life is the more important issue than whether one affirms Jesus as Lord. To place a statement of belief over actions is the essence of "self-righteousness," he said. "Actions speak louder than proclamations...What Jesus calls us to do is to live our lives." McDowell outlined his basic theology of grace: "Salvation by grace is remembering that we are the children of a living God. Grace is already there. And salvation is realizing we now live into that salvation. And sanctification is the transforming of my life from one that's me-centered to one that's God-centered." But to acknowledge the exclusive Lordship of Christ in a resolution would be too much for McDowell and the majority of deputies at the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church. The Rev. Robert Certain of the Diocese of San Diego told the House of Deputies that he refused to consider the resolution because the General Convention of 1982 had endorsed salvation through Christ alone, and a resolution was unnecessary. But the message was clear to the Rev. Donald Perschall, rector of St. John's Episcopal Church in Centralia, Illinois, as he left the convention hall Tuesday, shocked by the events of the day. "On top of leaving the Anglican Communion, we've decided to leave Jesus Christ behind as well." It was not a surprise vote though; the liberalization of the Episcopal Church predates 1982. Episcopalians have made it clear by their rejection of traditional marriage and other recent innovations that a new set of principles now dominate the Episcopal Church. Though the trend toward liberalism in the Episcopal Church has been ongoing for decades, it was in 2003 that the consecration of a homosexual as Bishop of New Hampshire crystallized the departure of the denomination from its bearings in classical Anglicanism. Dr. Michael Howell of the Diocese of Southwestern Florida and a member of the Special Committee that deliberated the Convention's response to the global Anglican Communion's Windsor Report, told VirtueOnline that the discharge of Resolution D058 is "very much related" to the failure of Resolution A161 moments earlier. A161 would place a moratorium on the consecration of homosexual bishops and the blessing of homosexual unions in a minimal effort to comply with the Windsor Report. It was soundly defeated on the floor of the House of Deputies Tuesday. "If we cannot affirm the unique salvific power of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we are no longer a Christian church." Switching to a sarcastic tone, Howell declared, "We have no need for a Creed. Why do again what we did in the past?" "This clearly shows that we are of a mind that does not affirm Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. And we should not be surprised that our church is dying spiritually," said Howell. The final tally on the electronic vote was 70.5 percent for discharge (675 votes) and just 29.5 (242 votes) to consider the resolution affirming Jesus Christ as Lord. FULL TEXT RESOLUTION D058 SALVATION THROUGH CHRIST ALONE Discharged in committee. Discharge upheld by House of Deputies, 75th General Convention. Resolved, the House of _____ concurring, That the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church declares its unchanging commitment to Jesus Christ as the Son of God, the only name by which any person may be saved (Article XVIII); and be it further Resolved, That we acknowledge the solemn responsibility placed upon us to share Christ with all persons when we hear His words, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No-one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6); and be it further Resolved, That we affirm that in Christ there is both the substitutionary essence of the Cross and the manifestation of God's unlimited and unending love for all persons; and be it further Resolved, That we renew our dedication to be faithful witnesses to all persons of the saving love of God perfectly and uniquely revealed in Jesus and upheld by the full testimony of Holy Scripture. END Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted July 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2006 As I am part of the PC(USA), I cannot speak to the the Episcopal situation, but the reporting of my church's General Assembly was really badly done. The PC(USA) has actually rescinded many of the leftest positions put forth last year; they reversed their decision regarding divestment of Israel, to name one, came out strongly agaisnt abortion to name another, is opposed to gay ordination and so on. However, there is enough wrong with the GA for my local church to leave the denomination. I wrote about our decision on another thread somewhere here. As of next month, my church will be independent, as we seek the leading of the Lord. Sometimes you just get tired of fighting, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted July 5, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2006 As I am part of the PC(USA), I cannot speak to the the Episcopal situation, but the reporting of my church's General Assembly was really badly done. The PC(USA) has actually rescinded many of the leftest positions put forth last year; they reversed their decision regarding divestment of Israel, to name one, came out strongly agaisnt abortion to name another, is opposed to gay ordination and so on. However, there is enough wrong with the GA for my local church to leave the denomination. I wrote about our decision on another thread somewhere here. As of next month, my church will be independent, as we seek the leading of the Lord. Sometimes you just get tired of fighting, you know? You guys hung in there for a long time and no one can blame you for cutting your ties. The seminaries and leadership structure for PCUSA is still largely controlled by feminists and the real problems are not going to be resolved in my view. There are conservative presbyterian options out there if you wish to stay in that form of church government. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted July 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2006 You guys hung in there for a long time and no one can blame you for cutting your ties. The seminaries and leadership structure for PCUSA is still largely controlled by feminists and the real problems are not going to be resolved in my view. There are conservative presbyterian options out there if you wish to stay in that form of church government. sw Thanks, and you are right. We are being courted by the Evangelical Presbyterian Church and the PCA. There are several other I am aware of. The Presbyterian form of church government seems to work well for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7cworldwide Posted July 5, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1978 Share Posted July 5, 2006 When you throw a statement like that out there, also show the proof because I have seen otherwise. You also need to take their statements in context of what THEY are saying. The church has not rejected the bible or Jesus Christ. They rejected the Bible years ago by allowing openly gay clergy. They have now rejected Christ, who said Himself that He is THE (singular and exclusive) Way, and are essentially calling Him a liar. That's putting it very bluntly but it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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