"Woe Unto You"

[Openly Curious]

All throughout the prophet I read in Isaiah, Jeremiah , Ezekiel were they all foretold of the end-time judgments that would also come in the latter days and befall Babylon who is represented by a great whore who enticed all nations including God's chosen nation into the worship of idols and made a mockery of the holy things of God.

If you will recall how the King of Babylon carried off all the holy vessels and utensils from the temple on Jerusalem and set them in the temple at Babylon. In the book of Daniel Baltshazzar had taken these same holy vessels and began to have a party celebrating and praising their gods as they began to drink wine from these holy vessels taken from the temple in Jerusalem.

And while they were partying and praising their idol gods a hand came in their midst and wrote on the wall "Mene Mene Tikel Upharsin" which meant Belshazzar had been weighed in the balances and found wanting as God had numbered the days of his kingdom. And in that very same night Belshazzar died and the nation of Babylon was divided into two halves the Medes and the Persians.

To those who know there Bibles you can recall also how Nebuchadnezzer the king of Babylon had dreamed a dream in Daniel chapter 2 and he woke up in the middle of it and couldn't remember the dream as it had troubled him and he had called all the magicians astrologers and the sorcerers to bring back the dream to his rememberance and if they could they would be rewarded but if not they would be cut in pieces. And of course they said it was an impossible request as no one has the power to bring back a forgotten dream. So the king had all these called wise men here killed.

Now among these men were Daniel, shadrack, meshach and abindego and when they came to slay Daniel he began to five counsel and inquire from Arioch who was the captain of the guard who had come to slay Daniel. Daniel wanted to know why the king was being so hasty. As Arioch told Daniel about how the astrologers and magicians couldn't tell him his dreams that he forgotten.

So Daniel goes and desires time from the king and we all know Daniel interprets and tell him of the dream he had but forgot. In how that there was a God in heaven that revealeth secrets (Amen) as God had shown Nebuchadnezzar what he was going to do it says in the "latter" days. so let's look at this for a moment more

[Guest jckduboise]

Go OC Go!!!!!

Gotta love it...best thread I have seen in some time..stick to the heart of the matter and don't give an inch...keep it up. God loves you my sister!!!

[Openly Curious]

Now the king had a dream of a great image if you'll recall in the form of a man his head was gold, his chest and arms were of silver his belly and thighs were brass his legs were iron and his feet were part iron and part clay.

In this same dream Nebuchadnezzar saw a stone that was cut out without hands which smote this image of a man on his feet that were made of iron and clay. After this the entire image was shattered. Daniel began to foretell of future events. And as I read this verse in Daniel it said

Daniel 2:44--"And in those days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed and the kingdom shall not be left to other people but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms and it shall stand for ever."

Now I brought all this up because we had seen this going on during the 6th trump judgment as it is the "Stone" the builder's rejected that was the stone Nebuchadnezzar saw cut out without hands which is Christ Jesus our Lord who will come crushing all the kingdoms of this world and set up his everlasting kingdom (Praise be to the Lamb of God)

Please bear with me as I inteject this history because it will all come together for us as I do at the end of this study conclusion and help us understand as we continue forward.

But King Nebuchanezzar of Babylon which was the dominant world power at that time in history after having his dream of the image and getting the interpretation of end-time events from Daniel. The king goes in chapter 3 of Daniel and makes and image of gold 3 score cubits high and 6 cubits wide and he called all the rulers to come to the dedication of this image that he set up. (Just opinion but I thought maybe this was image he had dreamed about in which he made and idol out of it)

But a message come forth while they were at this dedication of this image that all peoples, nations and languages whenever they'd hear the sound of the cornet, flute harp sackbut psaltery dulcimer and all kinds of music that was when they were to fall down and worship the golden image and whoever wouldn't fall down would be thrown in the firery furnace within that same hour for not falling down and worshipping the image.

As all of this is only a foretaste to us or a forerunner of worser things to come on the face of the earth in the future things that were to come as we saw the army of locust in Joel chapter one as a foretaste of what was even more worse to come in the future as we have already seen the army of locust that will torment people for 5 months that were not sealed.

And we know that the antichrist in the last days is going to come and set up his kingdom like Nebuchadnezzar had done back in history did. And the antichrist in the end-times is going to set up and image of some kind and cause all people nations and languages to fall down and worship the beast and to take his mark and if they don't they'll be slain

And God's wrath is one day going to be poured out as the antichrist is going to set up his kingdom and try to dominant and be the world power causing all nations peoples tongues and languages to submit to his rule as king as he will set up his image and cause a mark to be given as told us in Revelation in their right hands or foreheads. But............

[Marnie]

My commentary in my NIV Study Bible says this of Amos 5:18: "day of the LORD. The time when God will show himself the victor over the world, vindicating his claims to be the Lord over all the earth. Israel expected to be exalted as his people and longed for that day to come. Amos warned that the day would come, but not as Israel expected - it would be a day of "darkness, not light" for her, because she had not been faithful to God. Amos speaks primarily of an imminent and decisive judgment on Israel, not exclusively of the last day."

Much of Joel's prophecy deals with the "Day of the Lord," which will be a day of judgment upon the earth. The day of judgment will be Daniel's 70th Week or the Tribulation.

I, personally, believe this can apply to America, of whom so many believers are longing for the "rapture" of the Church. Perhaps what they are expecting to come will not come as they expected. Perhaps there is an "imminent and decisive judgment" coming to America that is not exclusive to the last day, but will preceed the last day of the final judgment of God and will preceed the second coming of Christ.

I don't think so for a number of reasons. This is the Age or Dispensation of Grace. G-d is not meting out judgment at this time, beyond the reaping and sowing for the consequences of sin. While believers of good faith can discuss the "when" of the rapture, it seems clear to me the Church has no place on earth during a time of judgment for the simple reason she has already been judged in Christ Jesus; there is no need for believers to be judged (in that way). This does not mean we are perfect, but we are made righteous in Christ. The only judgment a believer will face will be a judgment for rewards.

So, in longing for the "day of the Lord," we must be warned that it is not going to come to us as we expect - raptured to heaven to be with our Lord, but rather it is going to come as a day of "darkness, not light," as an "imminent and decisive judgment." We are going to get this judgment of God, because of our unfaithfulness to God, i.e. we are "lukewarm" or have "lost our first love." Basically, the Church is apostate - it is living in adultery and is following after other gods - the gods of our stomachs; the gods we have made with our own hands, etc.

I dont know what church you belong to, but if you belong to an apostate church, my advice to get out of it. As for me, I am part of the Church of G-d, that, while is far from perfect, it is called and redeemed and re-created and bought by the Blood of Jesus. The Laodician church was the lukewarm church, if I read my Revelation correctly. I know the Church is not a shining example of exactly what G-d has in mind for it, but we have been saved, sanctified and set free by the finished Work of Christ on the Cross. Again I say, believers have no fear of judgment and the "rapture" is the blessed hope of the Church; we have been found worthy to escape the wrath to come, not because we are so good, but because Christ is.

[Openly Curious]

God is going to judge this mystery Babylon in which the antichrist will try and create who will be the mother of harlots. Simply meaning this kingdom of the antichrist is going to be the worse that this world has ever seen as all nations kindred tongue everyone will be forced into joining themselves unto the image of the beast into idolatry and taking the mark.

Just like King Nebuchadnezzar had done in Daniel chapter 3. That's why Babylon is refered to as a lady in scriptures because of the seduction this nation of Babylon had in God's chosen people past history.

I had talked about shortly back about how they had taken the holy cups and vessel from the temple at Jerusalem and drank wine in them to their idol gods.

And God in the last days will cause this mystery kingdom of Babylon created by the antichrist in the end-time to drink from God's His own cup of fury that the prophets also prophesied about.

In Daniel chapter 4 you can read where Nebuchadnezzar got lifted up in pride and he had a dream of a tree that had grew strong as the height of the tree reached up to heaven and the sight of it to all the end of the earth as all flesh was fed of it.

Then there was a cry to cut down the tree and leave only the stump of it in the earth as all the branches were to be cut off from the tree. You can read in Daniel 4:16 where Nebuchadnezzar heart was going to be changed from a man's heart and a beast's heart was going to be given to him until he acknowledged and knew that the most High ruleth the kingdoms of this world.

Daniel comes and interprets this dream and the kingdom is taken away from the king you can read 12 months later where he got to boasted about all of what he did is this not what "I" have built and it was at that moment his kingdom was taken from him his heart was taken and a heart of a beast was given to him as he ate grass with the beast of the field until his hair and nails had grown out like those on a eagle.

When his time was up his sanity returned to him and he blessed the most high and praised and honored God as he acknowledged that God was the one whose dominion is an everlasting dominion and his kingdom is from generation to generation. The devil..........................

[Openly Curious]

the antichrist the beast is going to be upset once again in the future who will again out of pride rebuild mystery babylon the great whore the lady of kingdom seeking his own glory and majesty as king of this earth as all the other kingdoms will give there power over to the antichrist as his kingdom will give their power over to the antichrist as his kingdom as Babylon once was will be the dominant world power.

But God is going to humble the devil again as the kingdom of the antichrist will be destroyed for ever as every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord

In Revelation chapter 16 you can read where the seven last plagues the seven vials of God's wrath will be poured out and I'm only going to briefly touch upon these here for you.

Revelation 16:2 first angel pours his vial out and their fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men who had taken the mark of the beast and those that had worshipped the beast.

verse 3 second angel pours out his vial and the sea becomes as the blood of a dead man simply meaning all life in the sea was completely destroyed .

verse 4 third angel pour out his vial on the rivers and fountains of waters and they become blood as the angel who poured out his vial on the waters says after he was through that God was righteous in his judgment because they had shed the blood of saints and prophets and in return God had here given them blood to drink for they are worthy of this judgment.

And the ones who will not take the mark of the beast and worship the image of the beast will be slain in these end times. and God is going to give them blood to drink because of the saints and prophets they killed.

verse 8 the 4th angel pours his vial out upon the sun and power was given this angel also to sorch men with great heat.

verse 10 5th angel pours his vial out upon the seat of the beast and the beast kingdom was full of darkness as they gnawed their tongues for pains because of the sores.

verse 12 6th angel pours out his vial on the river Euphrates as the waters were dried up in the river so that the kings of the east could get prepared

And if you look into this river Euphrates here you can discover who the kings and nations are of the east here that are preparing for battle as I want include all of that information here maybe another time.

verse 17 the 7th angel pours out his vial into the air as their came out a great voice from the temple saying that it was done (Rev 4:5) as the seven spirits of God and thundering and lightening was heard as never has been heard before as there was an earth quake like has never been before at that time and it will be so great that the great city which is Mt. Zion when God put's his foot down on the Mt. of Olives the city of David. Jerusalem is going to be divided up into 3 parts as the cities of all nations are going to fall at that time.

And I talked about the little horn of Daniel chapter 7 was a coming and it is at this time the great Babylon is going to come up in God's rememberance it says to give unto her the "cup" of wine of the fierceness of God's wrath as it says in Revelations 6:14-17 even that the people will hide themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains. And will say to the mountains and the rocks to "Fall on us and hide them from the face of him that sitteth on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb. As great hailstones will be coming out of heaven and every one of these hailstones it says weighed about a talent that fell out of heaven in this plague of hail as the word says it was exceeding great.

And all in one hours time the word tells us that Babylon will be thrown down just as Jeremiah had prohesied about the 70 years while in Babylonian captivity in how the voice of the bride and the bridegroom would cease the voice of mirth and the sound of the millstone grinding wouldn't be heard anymore as the light of the candle wouldn't shine anymore as Jerusalem would lie desolate. Daniel also talked about.....................

[Guest Pioneer]

Hi Sue and All,

Pioneer replying. I sure apprecite it anytime someone STUDIES the Scriptures. It's so refreshing to see that.

I used to teach that Christians would be taken out via the rapture before the tribulation. But, if one discerns the Word of God, it speaks of the "DAY OF THE LORD."

That time period is the exact SAME period of time termed "GOD'S WRATH."

We know we are "not appointed to [God's] wrath."

However, the Word Of God plainly says "that it is through much TRIBULATION that we enter the Kingdom of God."

Then there is ALSO the time Jesus calls "the birth pangs or time of sorrows."

So, I believe there are three periods of time leading directly to the RETURN of Jesus Our KING. There can be no doubt that the world, including Ameirca, is at least in the "time of sorrows."

The GREAT Tribulation beings when the "Abomination of Desolation" occurs.

But, Tribulation for the Saints of God may very well overlap with the "time of sorrows or birth pangs." I personally believe the world is now in that period of time.

This is a subject that can be bounced around until the Kingdom comes. It takes a lot to try and properly understand.

In my second book, The Order Of Two Worlds, 532 pages, I cover this in detail. Written in three parts, the last part explains world conditions as they LEAD TO the second coming of the KING Jesus!

The first part tells of the glory IN heaven after the rapture. The second part tells of the joy on earth during the entire 1000 regin of the Lord and His Saints.

Anyway, I personally think that Christians in America, and the world, WILL be tested for their faith in Christ. God will only honor FAITHFUL children, and I do believe our faithfullness will be tested.

And I KNOW we will be VICTORIOUS!!!!!!

Pioneer

[Marnie]

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.--Acts 14:22

This verse has nothing to do with the Tribulation period. The clear teaching of the NT is that we enter the Kindgom of Heaven through Jesus Christ, not through tribulation. This verse was written to encourage the churches they had just returned from.

Also, I understand your "new" position concerning the rapture, however, after studying Matthew 24 and Revelation, especially from chapter 4 to the end, I can see no reason for the Church to be present during the Tribulation--any part of it. The notion that somehow the Church must be purged of lukewarm believers has no merit in Scripture. From the point of view of simple justice and fairness, it makes no sense whatsoever that the Church that happens to be alive at the end should endure tribulation while those who passed away just prior to that period escape it. Either the blood of Jesus cleanses us and makes us for heaven, or we need further cleansing from tribulation. Is the Sacrifice of Jesus sufficient or not? I can see how this kind of aberrant theology makes for good preaching, but I see it as being Biblically unsound.

[Openly Curious]

the endtime events that were dealing with these 70 years while Judah was in captivity and you can read in Revelation chapter 18 about the desolation of Babylon ans how God is going to once again restore Jerusalem but this time forever as the King of Judah the Lion of the tribe of Judah will reign forever.

And God is going to burn Babylon in the endtime just as the holy city the city of David was burned by Nebuchadnezzar's army and left desolate for those 70 years and you can read in Rev. 18:18 and in verses 22-23 that Babylon just as Jerusalem the Holy city back in Jeremiah's day that mystery Babylon will be just like that as the sound of the millstone will no more be heard in Babylon ever again.

And the light of their candle will never shine again and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will never again be heard in Babylon who through this nations sorceries all the nations were deceived.

And it tells us in Revelation 20:7-10 that that the devil will at the end of those 1000 year reign of peace will be loosed out of his prison. And he will go one last time to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth Gog and Magog to gather them together to battle as the number of whom is as the sand of the sea scripture says.

And they'll go up on the breath of the earth and compass the camp of the saints about and the beloved city (speaking of Jerusalem) as fire will come down from God out of heaven and devour them. The devil it says that deceived them will be cast into the lake of fire and brimestone at that time where the beast and the false prophet are and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Now let's go back to the book of Joel..........

[Openly Curious]

Now back in Joel chapter one we had got a glimpse of the past destruction of locust and in chapter 2 we've caught a real good glimpse now of the future day of the Lord and the coming destruction that will happen as God's wrath that we have seen now through all the 7 trump judgment and the 7 last plagues of the vials that will be poured out on earth.

After this in Joel 2:12-17 we can see the prophet Joel give a call to come to repentance to the southern kingdom of Judah for them to return to God with their whole hearts even. As in verse 14 Joel said "who knoweth if he will return and repent and leave a blessing behind him." As God had done before in Israel's past history God would change His mind when He saw them repent and humble themselves and the judgment wouldn't come.

Joel called this people in Judah to repentance in hope of God changing his mind so that worser judgment wouldn't come on them in the future.

And in between the past and the future events that are still to come we as the church can be restored through repentance and accepting Christ into our lives as deliverance will follow our repentance from the coming end time future destruction still to come to pass..................