Worthy News: Hamas: Arrests act of war - Ynet News

[Guest shiloh357]

As for your ghettos comment... It is so typical of you anti-semites to consitently try to make Israel's actions resemble the Holocaust. Gaza is Jew-free, amor. That means that means that you can no longer blame Israel for the actions of Palestinians there. Instead of building a nation with their newly acquired territory, they continue their quest to destory Israel.

I'm not an anti-semite, the just your nasty little lie that you come up with everytime you are presented with an opinion you don't like.

It is anti-semtitic to justify terrorizing innocent Jews as an understandable act. You don't offer opinions; you spin lies.

It is anti-Semitic when you make unwarranted and stupid allusions to the Holocaust in order to discredit Israel's self defense. Neither Gaza nor the West Bank are "ghettos" in any sense of the term. There is absolutely no semblance in any way shape or form. It is just a common anti-semitic practice to make such superficial baseless allusions in order to smear Israel and assign false values to this conflict.

[amor]

double post

[Guest shiloh357]

These people never cease to amaze me..

My 2 year old grand daughter has more common sense than the Palestinians....

Have these people no ability to to see their wrongdoing???

How do they dare make noises that puts the Israelis to blame...

I cannot comprehend their minds on this...

Easy to blame the victims of Israeki aggression isn't it? Forget the fact that they habe been driven from most of their land and now live in the ghettos of Gaza and the West Bank. Under continual Israeli military and economic attack. Compare the thousandsr of Palestinians held by the Israeli government to this one Israeli fighter held by a non-government group of Palestinian fighters. At least for once this was a military attack on a military target.

There are some other things that amor refuses to acknowledge:

The current wave of violence in Gaza does not stem from any kind of "occupation" or attack from Israel. This is not a decades old problem. Its origins are really only a year old. In front of everyone, Israel completely pulled out of Gaza. Israel left every home, every business every square inch of Gaza. ALL OF IT was given to the Palestinians. Gaza is 100% Jew-free. There has not been one remnant of Jewish existance ANYWHERE in Gaza for the 11 months.

Yet what have the Palestinians done with Gaza???? People like amor kept telling us that if only they had the land without Jews living there, if there was no Israeli presence the Palestinians could get on with forming their nation and their "self-determination. What a crock!!! Here we have the first Palestinian territory that has not been under rule of anyone other than Palestinians. No Israel, no Turks, no other Arab entities, only Palestinians.

When Israel pulled out, the rockets began firing from Gaza into Israel. The violence did not stop, intead the Palestinians only ratcheted up the violence and calls for Israel's destruction. Over 1,000 rockets have been fired into Israel since Israel's disengagement from Gaza. I would also remind you that these rockets are not firing at Jewish "setttlers" as amor calls them. They are firing into Israel proper onto Israeli citizens who are living in the pre 1967 borders of sovereign Israel. This only proves once more, that the issue is not the "settlements" but the very existance of Israel. If any other government were experiencing a similar threat, the threat would have been neutralized and the enemy government (like Hamas) that sanctioned such action would have been eliminated out of existance. But Israel is not allowed to enjoy that standard of living in amor's world.

Not only that, but the entire territory has descended into gang/mob rule and bloody turf wars. The Palestinians have even erected their own checkpoints extorting money from other Palestinians and many of these checkpoints are manned by young boys. Boys who should be in school are sporting machine guns at these checkpoints.

My point is that before the withdrawl, amor could rationalize his "understanding" of Palestinian terrorism as long as he could blither about, parroting the tired Palestinian mantra about occuaption, and settlements and all of that rot. Now, he does not have that to complain about where Gaza is concerned, and yet instead of admitting the obvious, and acknowledging what is happening in front everyone's eyes, he prefers to stick his head somewhere and pretend that he can get away with the same old complaints.

The truth is that the Palestinians haven proven poor amor wrong. They have proven over the last year, that every concession only makes them more violent, and that they will elect more violent leaders when given the choice. They have proven that they are too consumed with hate to ever have the composure, or state of mind necessary to have a nation on their own. They are consumed not with self-determination, but with the destruction of Israel. They have proven pver the last year, what those of us who choose to live in the REAL world have known all along.

[amor]

There are missiles being fired in both directions and the Israeli ones are proving to be more fatal. As to the withdrawal, well Palestinians in Gaza are living under seige. The Israelis still control the borders and the airspace and use there power to enforce an economic blockade limiting income and blocking exports. They use their powers to attack, kidnap and kill at will.

[amor]

Clearly it was their land as if it hadn't been there would have been no need to drive them from it in the first place see here for one example. Go to any Palestinian refugee camp and you will find many families still have deeds (and door-keys) to their properties inside Israel and on land and buildings expropriated on the West Bank.

Which their forefathers abandoned in 1948 hoping that the 5 invading Arab armies would annhilate Israel and they would not only have their homes but the homes and properties of the dead Jews.

Only a very few were ever forced to leave their cities, and that was so that the Israelis could fight Arab military units who were hiding in those towns. They forced those people to leave so that they could fight Arab regular military in an empty town instead killing thousands of civilians.

Of course you ignore the thousands Israel managed to repatriate back onto their land after the war, before the Arabs managed to get the UN to force Israel to stop all repatriation activities.

Those facts never make it into amor's imaginary history.

Thousands were forced and many were killed. Again I say remember Deir Yassin killing, indeed massacaring, non-combatant civillians wasn't seen as a problem there.

[Arthur Durnan]

Sorry, but ancient history surely eludes you. Golden Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel for approx. 3000-years, made so by a royal declaration of one, King David. Hamas, Fatah, Palestinian Authority are all (deadly) "Johnnie (or should that be Ahmed)-Come-Latelys." Let wealthy & Wahabbi Muslim Saudi Arabia step up to the plate (along with Syria & Egypt) to bring an end to the continuing "politically-correct" Muslim "refugee problem" which all Arab entities dearly love to have continue & escalate in their violence against the one democratically-elected State in the Middle East. For starters, move the self-styled "Palestinian refugees" to within easy driving distance of Riyadh or perhaps Mecca. Closer to their founder Muhammad's birthplace, yes?

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[nebula]

Re-asking.

Amor - you can't be so naive as to believe that Israel withdrawing to the 1967 borders will end the conflict over there.

[Guest Swamp Tiger]

The reason the muslims are not blessed is that they refuse to bless the Jews. God said He would bless those that bless them (the Jews) and curse those that curse them.

[Guest shiloh357]

There are missiles being fired in both directions and the Israeli ones are proving to be more fatal. As to the withdrawal, well Palestinians in Gaza are living under seige. The Israelis still control the borders and the airspace and use there power to enforce an economic blockade limiting income and blocking exports. They use their powers to attack, kidnap and kill at will.

But Israel's military actions are the result of Palestinian violence. The very day AFTER the pullout from Gaza, the Palestinians began the rocket barrage into Israel. As always you seek to decontextualize Israel's actions in order to hide the reality they are enacted in response to Palestinian provocation. It is simple verifiable FACT that since the pullout Palestinian violence only increased, and that as was predicted, the Palestinians would see the pull out as an indication that terrorism works. It was predicted that such a perspective would cause them to increase terrorist attacks, and it did. Israel until the last couple of weeks has shown incredible restraint their military activities. It has taken months of shelling ( over 1,000 rockets) from the Palestinians before Israel began taking MAJOR military action against them (just another fact you conveniently sweep under the rug).

Of course when it was the Palestinians who were kidnapping attacking and killing at will, you sit back in silent approval. As long as it Jewish blood flowing in the streets, you are satisfied. When Jews decide not to be victims to terrorism, THAT is when you find your outrage.

[Guest shiloh357]

Clearly it was their land as if it hadn't been there would have been no need to drive them from it in the first place see here for one example. Go to any Palestinian refugee camp and you will find many families still have deeds (and door-keys) to their properties inside Israel and on land and buildings expropriated on the West Bank.

Which their forefathers abandoned in 1948 hoping that the 5 invading Arab armies would annhilate Israel and they would not only have their homes but the homes and properties of the dead Jews.

Only a very few were ever forced to leave their cities, and that was so that the Israelis could fight Arab military units who were hiding in those towns. They forced those people to leave so that they could fight Arab regular military in an empty town instead killing thousands of civilians.

Of course you ignore the thousands Israel managed to repatriate back onto their land after the war, before the Arabs managed to get the UN to force Israel to stop all repatriation activities.

Those facts never make it into amor's imaginary history.

Thousands were forced and many were killed. Again I say remember Deir Yassin killing, indeed massacaring, non-combatant civillians wasn't seen as a problem there.

Yes there were (as I said) some who were forced out, but not entirely for the reasons that you cite. Furthermore, the majority of the Palestinians, some 600,000 left of their own free will even though Israel begged them to stay. This is attested to by both Arab and British sources of the time period, for example:

The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies.

- Falastin (Jordanian newspaper), February 19, 1949

The Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade. . . . He pointed out that they were already on the frontiers and that all the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean. . . Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes, and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down.

- Habib Issa, Secretary General of the Arab League (Azzam Pasha's successor), in the newspaper Al Hoda, June 8, 1951

"[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities guaranteed their safety and rights as citizens of Israel."

- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, according to Rev. Karl Baehr, Executive Secretary of the American Christian Palestine Committee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949

"Every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe. [However] ...A large road convoy, escorted by [british] military . . . left Haifa for Beirut yesterday. . . . Evacuation by sea goes on steadily. ...[Two days later, the Jews were] still making every effort to persuade the Arab populace to remain and to settle back into their normal lives in the towns... [as for the Arabs,] another convoy left Tireh for Transjordan, and the evacuation by sea continues. The quays and harbor are still crowded with refugees and their household effects, all omitting no opportunity to get a place an one of the boats leaving Haifa.""

- Haifa District HQ of the British Police, April 26, 1948, quoted in Battleground by Samuel Katz

"...the Jewish hagana asked (using loudspeakers) Arabs to remain at their homes but the most of the Arab population followed their leaders who asked them to leave the country."

The TIMES of London, reporting events of 22.4.48

amor, I can cite over 20 Arab and British sources from the time period that lay the sole blame for the Palestinian refugee situation squarely on the Arabs, not on Israel. You need to get with the program and stop being such a naive gullible victim of Arab propaganda and learn some REAL history.

Your constant use of Deir Yassin is pointless for the following reasons

1. You decontextualize Deir Yassin from the issues surrounding it namely the fact that it occured as result of Arab violence that had erurpted as a backlash to the Partition Plan and the ensuing war to annihilate Israel.

2. The fact that the citizens of Deir Yassin were given permission to leave, and granted safe passage in advance of Irgun attack, and the fact that many took advantage of this offer and NOT ONE of those who left were killed by the irgun defies the assertion that it was a massacre. The target of the forces attacking Deir Yassin were Arab regulars, not civilians. There were civilians that died, but that does not qualify it as a massacre. A massacre is the wanton targetting AND killing of the innocent and unarmed.

3. The fact that there was a gun battle and their were injuries and deaths on both sides of the fight also defies the notion that the event of Deir Yassin qualifies as a massacre.

4. Zionist organizations that condemned Deir Yassin attack initially, later retracted their condemnation after learning the facts about the event. Both Labor and the Jewish organization admitted later that their initial condemnation of the attack was an emotional reatcion and not based upon careful examination of the evidence.

5. Deir Yassin was an event that occurred prior the establishment of Israel. Therefore, the constant attempt to tie that event with modern Israel is futile.

6. The events in Gaza bear absolutely NO resemblance to Deir Yassin except for one thing. Israel is still not targetting civilians. The targets are those launching the Qassam rockets into Israel proper.

Civilian deaths are both regrettable and unavoidable. Civilians die in war. They have died in almost every war ever fought in this world. My problem with you is your completely one-sided and wholly dishonest approach to this conflict. The truth is that you, like most liberals don't care about the Palestinians. They simply provide you with a platform to launch derisions against Israel. When it is Arabs killing each other, you are silent. Kind of like you are silent about the way Palestinians gangs injure, torture, and kill their fellow Palestinians in Gaza right now.

You complain about the routine checkpoints that Israel imposes on the Palestinians to keep terrorists out of Israel, but you completely ignore the armed Palestinian checkpoints used to steal money from fellow Palestinians just so they can go to and from their jobs. You don't complain about the "plight" of the Palestinians when you cannot pin their woes on Israel. Funny how when it is Palestinians killing each other, their right to "self-determination" seems to go by the wayside. You are nothing but a lousy hypocrite.

Really that is what makes a debate with you more or less fruitless. You are not intellectually honest about the conflict, you operate from false premises, and you have completely made up version of history. Your position is based upon your hatred of Israel, and not upon a platform based upon a meaningful, intelligent, and substantive examination of the conflict.