amor Posted July 7, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,194 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2006 Re-asking. Amor - you can't be so naive as to believe that Israel withdrawing to the 1967 borders will end the conflict over there. It is the best deal available, and it needs to be accompanied by political and economic the support from those outside who bear considerable responsibility for the current mess (Europe, Russia, North America and the Gulf) for the creation of an economically viable palestinian state - Israel ( which has, remember been largest recipient of USA aid) itself has had similar support over the past 60 years. The alternative is a continuation of the current vicious and bloody stalemate. Neither the Palestinians or Israelis have or ever will have the power to wipe out the other - so a two viable states solution is the only solution. There will always be those on both sides (such as the crazy chap lauded on another thread here who wants Israel to mot just annex the occupied territories but North Lebanon and the Saudi oilfields as well) but the vast majority (remember that the settlers so popular here are less popular with vast majority of Israelis who live within the 1967 borders) most will settle for a solution that guarantees their physical safety and economic well being. Are you naive enough to think there is another solution to the current situation, if so what is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amor Posted July 7, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,194 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2006 As for your ghettos comment... It is so typical of you anti-semites to consitently try to make Israel's actions resemble the Holocaust. Gaza is Jew-free, amor. That means that means that you can no longer blame Israel for the actions of Palestinians there. Instead of building a nation with their newly acquired territory, they continue their quest to destory Israel. I'm not an anti-semite, the just your nasty little lie that you come up with everytime you are presented with an opinion you don't like. It is anti-semtitic to justify terrorizing innocent Jews as an understandable act. You don't offer opinions; you spin lies. It is anti-Semitic when you make unwarranted and stupid allusions to the Holocaust in order to discredit Israel's self defense. Neither Gaza nor the West Bank are "ghettos" in any sense of the term. There is absolutely no semblance in any way shape or form. It is just a common anti-semitic practice to make such superficial baseless allusions in order to smear Israel and assign false values to this conflict. i've not got as much time as you clearly do so shall not answer all your claims at once, but lets start here. Where do I make a comparison with the holocaust? Ghettoes existed in Europe since the middle-ages used to confine the Jewish poulation to a densley populated under resoursed districts. This is what Gaza is. I don't compre and never have compared the current position of the Palestinians to that of the Jews during the holocaust, I think you know this but you are happy to use the holocaust as a tool to attack those who challenge you. You are the smear merchant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 7, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 7, 2006 It is the best deal available, . . . . In paper, sure. But do you honestly believe Hamas et al would quit fighting Israel? Do you honestly believe they would be content with those boarders? What evidence have the Palestinians shown that they will cease fire with the 1967 borders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 i've not got as much time as you clearly do so shall not answer all your claims at once, but lets start here. Where do I make a comparison with the holocaust? Ghettoes existed in Europe since the middle-ages used to confine the Jewish poulation to a densley populated under resoursed districts. This is what Gaza is. I don't compre and never have compared the current position of the Palestinians to that of the Jews during the holocaust, I think you know this but you are happy to use the holocaust as a tool to attack those who challenge you. You are the smear merchant. Actually you do more to make my case, than originally thought. It is true that Jews were kept in ghettos in Europe even in the Middle ages, but the term ghetto in connection with the Jews is best known in our age as referring to those ghettos created in Nazi controlled areas. Furthermore, the connection with the ghettos is based in anti-Semitism. It is an attempt to paint the Jews in the same light as those persecuted the Jews (regardless of the era). It is a superficial and baseless comparison. The Jews did not force the Palestinians into Gaza, nor the West Bank; the Arabs put them there, and the Arabs keep them there to use as a weapon against Israel. IF they are "ghettos," it is the fault of the Arabs and not the Jews. Of course your bigotry will not allow you to admit that simple truth. I am not smearing you, I am exposing you for what you really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Re-asking. Amor - you can't be so naive as to believe that Israel withdrawing to the 1967 borders will end the conflict over there. It is the best deal available, and it needs to be accompanied by political and economic the support from those outside who bear considerable responsibility for the current mess (Europe, Russia, North America and the Gulf) for the creation of an economically viable palestinian state - Israel ( which has, remember been largest recipient of USA aid) itself has had similar support over the past 60 years. The alternative is a continuation of the current vicious and bloody stalemate. Neither the Palestinians or Israelis have or ever will have the power to wipe out the other - so a two viable states solution is the only solution. There will always be those on both sides (such as the crazy chap lauded on another thread here who wants Israel to mot just annex the occupied territories but North Lebanon and the Saudi oilfields as well) but the vast majority (remember that the settlers so popular here are less popular with vast majority of Israelis who live within the 1967 borders) most will settle for a solution that guarantees their physical safety and economic well being. Are you naive enough to think there is another solution to the current situation, if so what is it? This demonstrates how little of a grasp amor has on the conflict. The Arabs have never promised peace if given all of their demands. In fact, Hamas and other such terrorist entities have sworn that that they will not stop until Israel is destroyed. amor is naive because he presumes that he knows what the Palestinians want, even though the Palestinians completely contradict him. The Arab world will stand for nothing less than the complete annhilation of Israel, but amor ignores this and pretends that his naive idea of a two state solution will work even when the Arabs say they will not have a two state solution. This is why amor cannot be taken seriously. He refuses to operate on any level of intellectual honesty regarding the dynamics of this conflict even when the facts are readily available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amor Posted July 9, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,194 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2006 These people never cease to amaze me.. My 2 year old grand daughter has more common sense than the Palestinians.... Have these people no ability to to see their wrongdoing??? How do they dare make noises that puts the Israelis to blame... I cannot comprehend their minds on this... Easy to blame the victims of Israeki aggression isn't it? Forget the fact that they habe been driven from most of their land and now live in the ghettos of Gaza and the West Bank. Under continual Israeli military and economic attack. Compare the thousandsr of Palestinians held by the Israeli government to this one Israeli fighter held by a non-government group of Palestinian fighters. At least for once this was a military attack on a military target. The thousands of Palestinians held in the Israeli prisoners are there becuase Israel captured them in their attempts to commit suicide bombings all over Israel. They are rightfully held for their crimes. Israel has every right to try them and sentence them. Of course people like amor don't care about those checkpoints because he cannnot pin them on the Israelis. amor pretends that he cares about the Palestinians, but he doesn't. Palestinains can kill each other, and amor is silent. He only jumps on this board when he thinks he launch annother one his racist diatribes against Israeli Jews who dare to defend themsvelves. amor's views defy intellectual honesty. So all Palestinians held in Israeli prisoners are suicide bombers who failed to explode! I don't think that tallies with Israeli what the Israeli government believes. They accuse them of all sorts of others acts. Still they must be wrong and you right! And you accuse me of lacking intellectual honesty, you might at least try and think about how silly some of the claims you make are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amor Posted July 9, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,194 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2006 It is the best deal available, . . . . In paper, sure. But do you honestly believe Hamas et al would quit fighting Israel? Do you honestly believe they would be content with those boarders? What evidence have the Palestinians shown that they will cease fire with the 1967 borders? Some will continue to struggle for all of the territory, as will Jewish extremists on the other side, but most will settle - because like most people they want normal lives. You mention Hamas, they're not a particularly pleasant bunch, but even they will deal. even if they use some face-saving mantra about a long term cease-fire. Anyway, you still haven't told us your alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 9, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 9, 2006 What evidence have the Palestinians shown that they will cease fire with the 1967 borders? Some will continue to struggle for all of the territory, as will Jewish extremists on the other side, but most will settle - because like most people they want normal lives. You mention Hamas, they're not a particularly pleasant bunch, but even they will deal. even if they use some face-saving mantra about a long term cease-fire. Dream world, amor. You know full and well that the violence won't quit until the Jews are cast out of the entire Land and Israel is no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 So all Palestinians held in Israeli prisoners are suicide bombers who failed to explode! I don't think that tallies with Israeli what the Israeli government believes. They accuse them of all sorts of others acts. Still they must be wrong and you right! And you accuse me of lacking intellectual honesty, you might at least try and think about how silly some of the claims you make are. The problem here is that you really don't have a grasp on just how many terrorist attakcs Israel has had to deal with. Just from 2000 to 2004 alone, there were 22,406 terrorist attacks upon Israelis and this is counting every attack on Jews in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel proper. In 2005, there 2,990 terrorist attacks. So, at this rate, it is easy to see why the majority of Paletinians are terrorists. There are many attacks both successful and unsuccessful that simply don't make it into the news. I am sure that you think there is just a few people involved in the terrorism enterprise. That is because you are sucker for Arab propaganda that swears that it is just a few people who are doing all of this. They like gulliable Westerners like you. You are a useful idiot where they are concerned. It would not matter to if they were terrorists or not. As far as you are concerned, their activities are "understandable." As long as they are killing Jews, you will support them, as you cointiue to do on this board. Actually according to the Israeli government, several of those 22,406 terrorist attacks were directed from those in Israeli prisons. For example: In May 2003, a Hamas cell from northern Jerusalem, whose members carried blue Israeli identity cards, was uncovered; it had planned to abduct soldiers. Cell members planned to abduct soldiers in order to bargain for the release of Palestinian prisoners. The cell's activities were directed by Hamas prisoners in Ashkelon Prison via letters passed on by the prisoners' relatives. Israel has even captured foreign nationals recruited by the Palestinians to commit terrorist attacks against Israel, so the number goes up even higher if we are simply counting terrorists. Of the thousands of Palestinian prisoners currently in Israeli prisons, I am sure we find a few hundred that are not necessarily there for terrorist activity, but the overwhelming number are imprisoned for that reason. They either helped, masterminded or attempted to carryout the attack. They have been wounded in a successful attack. If released the prisoners will simply be sent back to their respective terrorist units, debriefed and will be off to commit more terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amor Posted July 9, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,194 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2006 So all Palestinians held in Israeli prisoners are suicide bombers who failed to explode! I don't think that tallies with Israeli what the Israeli government believes. They accuse them of all sorts of others acts. Still they must be wrong and you right! And you accuse me of lacking intellectual honesty, you might at least try and think about how silly some of the claims you make are. The problem here is that you really don't have a grasp on just how many terrorist attakcs Israel has had to deal with. Just from 2000 to 2004 alone, there were 22,406 terrorist attacks upon Israelis and this is counting every attack on Jews in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel proper. In 2005, there 2,990 terrorist attacks. So, at this rate, it is easy to see why the majority of Paletinians are terrorists. The majority of all the several millionPalestinians terrorists eh! You do talk unsubstantiated nonsense. And you have the gall to accuse others of racism! So lets make this clear any attack on an Israeli be they military or civillian is terrorism be it throwing a stone at a tank or blowing yourself up in a market. But all those thousands being heldheld as you stated in an earlier post are only the wannabe suicide bombers. As usual little makes sense in your assertions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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