Magnus123 Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2006 (edited) The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE has no Biblical grounds and I will only use the Bible and good sober reasoning to prove this fact. The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE is a dangerous and destructive teaching that satan has incorporated into christianity for the following reasons:to cause division among christiansto make the topic about the "end times" confusing in order that christians dont bother to read into it(pin ultimate) when the "Mark of the Beast" gets incorporated into our current payment system, the PRE-TRIBULATIONISTS will defend the "mark" because according to them: the church needs to be RAPTURED first before any of the "end-time" events will occur. The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE is a belief so deceiving that "if it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived".A lot of denominations believe in the PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE only because the Reverend/Pastor/Preacher/Priest has been tought to believe so at the institution he/she studied and passes this over to his/her congregation. I urge you (the reader) to forget everything you have been tought by man or seen on the movies or read in a novel and listen carefully to the teachings Jesus Christ is revealing to us through His infalluable word- the Bible. The question is "Rapture?" or in laymans terms: "Is it a fact that Jesus will come fetch His elect before the Tribulation or is it a false and destructive teaching?" The following scriptures deals with the matter on which this whole discussion is based, please read it carefully: Matthew 24:29-31 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. You probably noticed I super imposed everywhere it says "trumpet" The reason for this is becuase this is the "key" God gave us for unwraveling this mystery. Jesus knew that in the end times satan will come and try to confuse the people about His return, trying to let the elect think they will be "out of here" before the "antichrist" is revealed, before the "Mark of the Beast" is revealed and before the wolrd suffers the tribulation. From the scriptures it is a clear as daylight that Jesus will only return once and it is after the tribulation. At His return the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give it's light. When He returns it will be like lightning that shines from the east-to-the-west. It will be a loud and great event, and all people living on earth will see Him coming. He will send out His angels to gather His elect from the four winds of the earth with the sound of a "trumpet". Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about a "secret rapture" before the earth will experience great tribulation. Rather the Bible teaches us that we as disciples will endure much tribulation. James 5:7-11 7 Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient about it, until it receives the early and the late rains. 8 You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 9 Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the door. 10 As an example of suffering and patience, brothers, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11 Behold, we consider those blessed who remained steadfast. You have heard of the steadfastness of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful. Read the following scripture it clearly explains what will happen when God comes to fetch His elect. (Remember it is after the tribulation): Matthew 24:36-44 36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. 37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. 42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. A while ago there were a series of movies released based on a series of novels called the "Left Behind" series by Tim La Hay and Jerry Jenkins. This series also proclaim a PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE. But one thing we need to bare in mind is that we are living in the end times and in the end times there will be many false prophets prophesying false prophesies. The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE is a false prophesy that could cost you your salvation when the "Mark of the Beast" appears. Edited August 16, 2006 by Magnus123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Thank you for your opinion. I do not share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE has no Biblical grounds and I will only use the Bible and good sober reasoning to prove this fact. The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE is a dangerous and destructive teaching that satan has incorporated into christianity for the following reasons:to cause division among christiansto make the topic about the "end times" confusing in order that christians dont bother to read into it(pin ultimate) when the "Mark of the Beast" gets incorporated into our current payment system, the PRE-TRIBULATIONISTS will defend the "mark" because according to them: the church needs to be RAPTURED first before any of the "end-time" events will occur. The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE is a belief so deceiving that "if it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived".A lot of denominations believe in the PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE only because the Reverend/Pastor/Preacher/Priest has been tought to believe so at the institution he/she studied and passes this over to his/her congregation. I urge you (the reader) to forget everything you have been tought by man or seen on the movies or read in a novel and listen carefully to the teachings Jesus Christ is revealing to us through His infalluable word- the Bible. The question is "Rapture?" or in laymans terms: "Is it a fact that Jesus will come fetch His elect before the Tribulation or is it a false and destructive teaching?" The following scriptures deals with the matter on which this whole discussion is based, please read it carefully: Matthew 24:29-31 29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Belief in any form of Rapture be it, Pre-trib, Mid-trib or Post-trib, has absolutely nothing to do with Salvation. Absolutely! These eschatological matters are mysteries, and serve to keep us vigilant for the Lord's return. It doesn't have to divide us, but only if we allow it. Any division is something we allow the devil his way in. It is up to us to deny him that pleasure! My beloved pastor has a different view than I do. I love him so very much in the Lord, and he has such a heart for God, and I also love and serve the Lord, but it has nothing to do with spiritual standing, nor salvation. We all will be together in the end! Hallelujah! Come Lord Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 16, 2006 It's nice to express your opinion Magnus...but say it...don't spray it... no one will lose their Salvation any time soon believing in a Pre,Mid or Post Tribulation Rapture. Peace CJ Say it! Don't spray it! I always loved that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsower Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Author Share Posted August 16, 2006 blah blah blah, go debate the rapture somewhere else, re-read the beginning of my thread...I don't want to argue the event, just wondering what those that believe in it think about who's going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Okay, OP.... Rapture, Is it for all believers or not? The "Rapture" is for all Pre-Tribulation Christians! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 I'm Baaaack! Missed you all BIG. Finally got a computer again So.....the more I study I'm thinking the rapture is somehow a reward for the really serious followers of Christ. If you don't believe in any sort of rapture just don't respond, cuz I don't want to debate the rapture, I believe in it and I'm not changing my mind about it. OK, so the reason I'm thinking this is the 7 letters to the churches, only one looks like they are saved from the tribulation, then the 10 virgins, yep, then Luke says pray that you be made worthy to escape the tribulation. So, whataya think? Sabra Everyone goes through the tribulation time period. The statement of "being worthy to escape the tribulation" simply refers to escaping the wrath of God during that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Escaping Tribulation means just that---escaping Tribulation, which is the out-pouring of wrath. The Church doesn't suffer the wrath. Why would the Bride suffer the wrath? She is kept apart from it by the Groom. Tribulation is not for the Church whatsoever. It is for the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Escaping Tribulation means just that---escaping Tribulation, which is the out-pouring of wrath. The Church doesn't suffer the wrath. Why would the Bride suffer the wrath? Yes...you are correct. But escaping tribulation doesn't mean we won't be around to witness it. You can witness something without being a part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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