Captain Malcolm Reynolds Posted August 18, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 38 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/01/1986 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) Jesus is the only way, alah died as a sinner, Jesus died without sin! Wow. Allah is their God. Mohammed was their prophet. I can see you know a great deal about Islam, and therefore are in a wonderful position to not only judge, but condemn. Wait.. didn't your God say "judge not"? Whoops! And did he die a sinner in your God's eyes, or Allah's? And is this a problem for Allah? If not, why are we having this discussion? You want me to cite Christians? Sure, here are a two: Hitler BTK Killer (Bind, Kill Torture killer) There are many, many more, naturally... and many alive today, but unfortunately, they're not entrenched deeply enough for you to be unable to deny their iniquity (*COUGH* Ann Coulter, Pat Robertson). According to a survey, 80% of prisoners (in jail...) are Christian. 0.2% are atheists. But 78% of the US pop. is Christian.. vs. 10% atheist. hm.... How the heck do you know your religion is right? Muslims think their God talks to them too, and there are at LEAST 1.2 billion of them, as many as 1.5. Maybe there's something to that...hm.. Secondeve, georgesbluegirl, arialia and Vox made FOUR good posts in succession! *Sigh*... too bad I'm an atheist... doesn't let me PM anyone =P Eve, are you agnostic? Or Jewish... or something? Theist or otherwise, you make intelligent posts, which is rare, in my experience. Lol, high five for having an IQ more than one SD above normal Edited August 18, 2006 by Captain Malcolm Reynolds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted August 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted August 18, 2006 both excellent points, eve. i was about to say that chick tracts are not the best way to foster discussion on subjects such as these. as a catholic, i am often disgusted with the way he portrays catholicism. although i know far less about islam, i know enough and have enough experience reading these tracts to know that muslims must be equally or more offended, given some of the outrageous claims and fallacies that even i can spot. have a little respect - that's the only way you're ever going to get a good dialogue. and saying that god is not sinless/does not sin is theologically correct - it has echoes of what thomas aquinas meant when he said that "god does not exist." rather than being a nietzschean statement of atheism, it was a testament of faith - that god does not exist because god IS existence. all existing things have an essence; the essence of the divine is TO exist. mohammad, thank you for being here. I don't think Jack Chick's tracts are well written for topics like this either. I'll offend a heretic in a heartbeat because I believe you need to take a strong stand against them as they can destroy the faith of others, but I don't believe in being so beligerant with unbelievers. We need to remember that before our hearts were circumcised, we were in the same condition as these unbelievers. None of the sins we committed were anywhere "Less" in God's eyes than any sin they commit. The difference is that our eyes were opened and at this time theirs have not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgredline Posted August 18, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 30 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2006 http://www.pro4machineworks.com/Islam.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondeve Posted August 18, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/02/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/21/1986 Share Posted August 18, 2006 How the heck do you know your religion is right? Muslims think their God talks to them too, and there are at LEAST 1.2 billion of them, as many as 1.5. Maybe there's something to that...hm.. I love this argument. The answer you'll get is faith, which is reasonable in one sense but which also fails to acknowledge that, once we humans have accepted the limitations of our knowledge and our falable perceptions, it might be seen as somewhat strange to trust in one unprovable idea over another for no better reason than preference and proximity. Eve, are you agnostic? Or Jewish... or something? Theist or otherwise, you make intelligent posts, which is rare, in my experience. Lol, high five for having an IQ more than one SD above normal I'm an athiest. I don't believe that anyone can prove or disprove that there is/isn't a God/Gods out there; I do believe that there are so many conflicting human theories as to what these entities might be - all of which require equal amounts of faith - that even if such a being/s did exist, it would be even chances that either everyone on Earth had got it wrong, or that, if one group had got it right, it would be impossible to determine intelligently which group this was. So even if I ever became convinced that there was Someone or Ones out there, I don't think I'd ever express this belief through adherence to religion, so much as generic thankfulness. If god is/gods are truly omnipotent, he/she/it/they would understand what I've just pointed out, and, if they were benevolent or forgiving, would not hold it against me. Or so I believe is logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgesbluegirl Posted August 18, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,234 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1987 Share Posted August 18, 2006 it would be even chances that either everyone on Earth had got it wrong, or that, if one group had got it right, it would be impossible to determine intelligently which group this was. that reminds me of the beginning of that old "is hell endothermic or exothermic?" email, which begins with the premise that everyone goes to hell - because all religions claim to be true, and most claim that if you don't follow them, you go to hell...so assuming all religions are true, everyone goes to hell ;-) anyway, it's as good a reason as any why church should be seperated from state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Why is it I find myself agreeing with all your posts tonight? No, I wouldn't want Satanists or Hindis running our government... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CellShade Posted August 18, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 397 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/22/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 You know my stand with catholicism and christianity, so I won't get into this talk about chick tracks, while sometimes may exagerate, it's true, like it or not. As always you have never been able to substantiate any of your claim or answer any questions. Your stance on Catholicism and Christianity is beside the point, I am more than happy to supply those unanswered questions to you. Vox thing is, I am not arguing whether if catholism is true or not( which I believe is not) but rather that I don't consider catholics christian. For me it is another religion. Not getting into this disccussion with you, last time thread got closed down. Btw Second Eve, while I may not know everything( only The One in me knows everything), I have a more than average understanding of Islam, same as of catholism. Anyway secondeve, as far as I am concerned, the thread was a Christianity point against a muslim point, not an atheist point, I know my points and my view towards other religions are very hostile, I know that, but believe me, actually those tracks when people read them, even catholics, many say that is true what it says there( regarding thing used or things done in catholic system) no words regarding Islam, I don't know fairly well many people that believe in Islam. Vox, please let's not discuss Christianity.RCC, we know that the thread got closed the other time. Blessings, Cell. Btw I still love Catholics, atheist, and muslims, I just hate their religion, and in case of atheist, I don't hate them, but seriusly think they need to think straight . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vox Posted August 18, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) You know my stand with catholicism and christianity, so I won't get into this talk about chick tracks, while sometimes may exagerate, it's true, like it or not. As always you have never been able to substantiate any of your claim or answer any questions. Your stance on Catholicism and Christianity is beside the point, I am more than happy to supply those unanswered questions to you. Vox thing is, I am not arguing whether if catholism is true or not( which I believe is not) but rather that I don't consider catholics christian. For me it is another religion. Not getting into this disccussion with you, last time thread got closed down. Cell, you are missing my point. I never argue that point with you. It is not for me to judge you, and it matters little what you think of Catholicism and Catholics. However you must allow Catholics to defend their faith when you or others make untrue statements and disparaging remarks about Catholicism. That's all really. I am not trying to get you to agree with the Catholic teaching. But you must allow me to defend untrue statements about the Church. If you read all my posts on the subject you will find that's my very purpose and no more. Every time non Catholics have no answer the thread is closed down, and it isn Edited August 18, 2006 by vox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgesbluegirl Posted August 18, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,234 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1987 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Vox, I was with you till here: At least I know what is said about Islam is what Islam really is, a satanic cult. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vox Posted August 18, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2006 Vox, I was with you till here: At least I know what is said about Islam is what Islam really is, a satanic cult. Sigh. GBG, you are entitled to your opinion and I am not going hold it against you. You must know something I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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