secondeve Posted August 9, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/02/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/21/1986 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I've often heard Christians talk about how you can tell someone is filled with the Holy Spirit if they do good deeds; ie, 'fruit of the vine.' To me, this seems rather strange, so I'm hoping to get some kind of explanation. 1. The whole idea of good deeds demontrasting the Spirit implies that good deeds are done exclusively by people filled with the Spirit - that, a non-Christian, or, for that matter, a Christian not filled with the Spirit, could not perform a good deed. This is clearly not true. Which leads to: 2. If people filled with the Spirit are not the only people to do good deeds, then good deeds are no measure for someone being Spirit-filled. What would result is either arbitrary judgements based on "better" deeds, or on personal observation. The remark could quite easily come to refer simply to someone who is good, not someone who is Spirit-filled. 3. If someone is Spirit-filled, can they comit a bad deed? If so, how? All people sin or screw up sooner or later - in varying magnitudes, yes, but they still do. Christians are not immune to this. Ergo, being Spirit-filled does not prevent someone from being flawed, nor can a person's good deeds prove that they are Spirit-filled. Essentially, whenever anyone refers to anyone else as being like this, I take it to mean either that the person in question has a good life they are seen to be deserving of - ie, they're good and so God has rewarded them - or because they're zealous/enthusiastic about church projects or Jesus in general. Is this a reasonable viewpoint, or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 9, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 9, 2006 No, you're not missing anything, Eve. You're spot on. The problem is dealing in absolutes. You just can't do it in areas like this. It's on a case-by-case basis, if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 9, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Galatians 5:22-25 says: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. These are the character qualities that are obvious in Spirit-filled Christians. All fruit is there in our lives when we come to Christ as Saviour, but it is our job to make sure that it grows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candi770 Posted August 9, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 119 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,316 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/01/1970 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I was trying to look up very specific scripture and found the following: The secret of Bearing Fruit is Abiding All about a relationship with Jesus not works candi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandRose Posted August 9, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,266 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/21/1954 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Right, our good works should come as a result of the fruit. The law dealt with our actions. Christ is concerned with our motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 9, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I was trying to look up very specific scripture and found the following: The secret of Bearing Fruit is Abiding All about a relationship with Jesus not works candi That's so right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terri321 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Matthew 7:20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.. *By their fruits you shall know them..... DISCERNING BY WORDS AND WORKS OF: this is also for one proclaiming salvation... you will know by their fruits including words... {..Some of us are slower at the ability to discern than others) Plucking fruit from a tree; We know........ Fresh, ripe fruit. Green............ immature fruit. The in-between stages: of fruits growth. We also know.......... Bruised fruit. From............ Rotten fruit. WE DISCERN OTHERS ON THE FRUIT SCALE. EXAMPLES WE CAN RELATE TO as fruits: discerning by works. Mary....Mother of God, .................(ripe) Peter (walking on water)...............(almost ripe) Doubting Thomas........................ (new fruit) Clinton....................................... (bruised fruit) Hitler..........................................(rotten fruit) Just thought Id add to the topic of fruit........ God Bless Terri321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylvan3 Posted August 9, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2006 I've often heard Christians talk about how you can tell someone is filled with the Holy Spirit if they do good deeds; ie, 'fruit of the vine.' To me, this seems rather strange, so I'm hoping to get some kind of explanation. 1. The whole idea of good deeds demontrasting the Spirit implies that good deeds are done exclusively by people filled with the Spirit - that, a non-Christian, or, for that matter, a Christian not filled with the Spirit, could not perform a good deed. This is clearly not true. Which leads to: 2. If people filled with the Spirit are not the only people to do good deeds, then good deeds are no measure for someone being Spirit-filled. What would result is either arbitrary judgements based on "better" deeds, or on personal observation. The remark could quite easily come to refer simply to someone who is good, not someone who is Spirit-filled. 3. If someone is Spirit-filled, can they comit a bad deed? If so, how? All people sin or screw up sooner or later - in varying magnitudes, yes, but they still do. Christians are not immune to this. Ergo, being Spirit-filled does not prevent someone from being flawed, nor can a person's good deeds prove that they are Spirit-filled. Essentially, whenever anyone refers to anyone else as being like this, I take it to mean either that the person in question has a good life they are seen to be deserving of - ie, they're good and so God has rewarded them - or because they're zealous/enthusiastic about church projects or Jesus in general. Is this a reasonable viewpoint, or am I missing something? The question here--how one's works reflect if he or she is filled with the spirit-- is a very good one. Christianity's view as to what constitutes a sin is key. According to the Bible, all sins are of equal value. This would then mean that even the most seemingly minor sin would reflect not being filled with the spirit. For example, most people would associate BTK with not being spirit-filled--despite his many "good works" with his church. However, what about that person who "lusts" once every couple of years? What about the person who calls in sick to work without being sick? What about the person who fails to report something on income tax? If all sins are equal, then that person is not much better off than BTK according to Christian criteria. So, who is spirit-filled? I don't see how it can be accurately answered since, minimally, "minor" sins (which are actually major according to Christian criteria) are being committed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 9, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Matthew 7:20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.. *By their fruits you shall know them..... DISCERNING BY WORDS AND WORKS OF: this is also for one proclaiming salvation... you will know by their fruits including words... {..Some of us are slower at the ability to discern than others) Plucking fruit from a tree; We know........ Fresh, ripe fruit. Green............ immature fruit. The in-between stages: of fruits growth. We also know.......... Bruised fruit. From............ Rotten fruit. WE DISCERN OTHERS ON THE FRUIT SCALE. EXAMPLES WE CAN RELATE TO as fruits: discerning by works. Mary....Mother of God, .................(ripe) Peter (walking on water)...............(almost ripe) Doubting Thomas........................ (new fruit) Clinton....................................... (bruised fruit) Hitler..........................................(rotten fruit) Just thought Id add to the topic of fruit........ God Bless Terri321 Terri, that's so cool! Thanks for posting that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
followerofjesus Posted August 10, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,013 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/08/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 10, 2006 An evil mans good deeds still leaves an evil man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts