Guest drbelitz Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 The Bible teaches that the confessing of sins is a usual requisite for obtaining forgiveness. Nobody has disputed that. The Bible teaches that Christ gave to the validly ordained ministers of his own Church the power to forgive sins. The mega problem with that is that there are no ministers now alive who can prove that they have valid ordination. There is not even an indication from God that valid ordination exists in the sense that is meant here. This appears to be invention of man. "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us; we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointer Posted September 10, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 636 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 10, 2006 There are bishops and priests all over the world who can trace their valid lines back to the apostles themselves. Perhaps you could provide details, along with facsimiles of personal documentation supported with continuous records of reliably witnessed signatures originating with those of apostles. Over a period of several decades, my requests for these evidences to Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have met with no positive response. A 'back-dated' list is of no value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kephasrock Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 go and study it for yourself, there are many people who have and then became catholic. Christ gave only his priests(ordained) the ability to remit or NOT remit the sins of others. john 20:21-23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted September 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted September 19, 2006 go and study it for yourself, there are many people who have and then became catholic. Christ gave only his priests(ordained) the ability to remit or NOT remit the sins of others. john 20:21-23 That is only true in the sense that we, His followers--His Church--are His priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kephasrock Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 we are not ordained by a bishop. we cannot forgive sins. neither can we deny the forgiveness of sins as the apostles can. In fact, we, as laypersons are told that as believers we MUST forgive our brother, or God will not forgive us. You MUST. The priests who are ordained, which are called for specifically in james 5:14 can anoit others, heal them and pray for them and forgive their sins. it is all in the following verses. you can't do any of that, you are not ordained by a bishop of the church in direct succession, unbroken from the first 12 apostles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted September 20, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted September 20, 2006 we are not ordained by a bishop. we cannot forgive sins. neither can we deny the forgiveness of sins as the apostles can. In fact, we, as laypersons are told that as believers we MUST forgive our brother, or God will not forgive us. You MUST. The priests who are ordained, which are called for specifically in james 5:14 can anoit others, heal them and pray for them and forgive their sins. it is all in the following verses. you can't do any of that, you are not ordained by a bishop of the church in direct succession, unbroken from the first 12 apostles. What you are talking about is religion! We are certainly able to forgive sins against us, and if we deny it, we suffer. That is what that scripture means. Ordination is a religious rite, and does not have anything to do with this. We are priests of God--all of us who know Jesus Christ as Saviour. He frees us from religion, thanks be to God! We can certainly anoint one another, bring healing to one another through Christ, and pray for one another without having been "ordained" by a church to do it! We ARE the Church. The Holy Spirit anoints us! Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted September 20, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted September 20, 2006 thats hilarious. you think that you can forgive sins, when scripture doesn't say that? You can forgive a wrong, but you cannot forgive a sin and remove it from another, as the priest of the church does. If all believers are ordained priests, as you claim, then why would all of the BELIEVERS in james 5 have to call for a PRIEST of the CHURCH to anoint them, pray for them heal them and forgive their sins? yes, the Church in the Bible is RELIGIOUS! allelujah. without religion, you cannot have a relationship with God.. the word re ligion means to bind togther with God you silly goose. you are so uneducated. and you don't know the scriptures or church history. No. The scripture is plain about it. It's man's tampering that has gotten him all caught up with religiosity. God hates religion. I am educated. I do know scripture. I do know what the Church is and where it started. Don't get personal here. Watch yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted September 20, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Mark 16... 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted September 20, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I am so thankful for the Reformation...we sure needed it. I am glad I am living on this side of it, rather than before it. God is so good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointer Posted September 20, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 636 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 20, 2006 go and study it for yourself There are such documents? Do tell me where I can inspect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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