EricH Posted September 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2006 Also, you might want to check out this e-book on Rick Warren. You can find it here. Eric, Tammy Hartzell outlines the problem with the purposes better than I ever could. Download the entire book in PDF form. It's a good read. Anyone know of any PDF of PDL so I could read these side by side? I am starting the reading process of this article, and I notice immediately that their quotes of RW frequently to no addup to the conclusions they draw: For example: There is no greater epitaph than that statement! Imagine it chiseled on your tombstone: That you served God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted September 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2006 Here is another example of using quotes in a way not intended by the author. The writers of the article quote some of the "marketing statments" on the back cover: Remember when the Lord Jesus Christ didn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted September 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2006 Mr. Felts says that despite his church's troubles, most churches that follow the purpose-driven way are growing. "It takes time and persistence," he says. "You're talking about a new paradigm." Wow, once again, clear New Age terminology. It seems to be springing up everywhere. Glad you happened to quote this, because it reminds me... New Paradigm for what? Just because a person uses a term that is well understood by the culture, and used by another source, does not mean they agree with everything the other source said. The term "paradigm shift" has been adopted by the culture and taken on a meaning that is separate from its new age origins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted September 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2006 For reference, the fundamentals he is referring to: <a href="http://""" target="_blank"></a>The Five Fundamentals of Faith 1. The Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2. The Virgin Birth. 3. The Blood Atonement. 4. The Bodily Resurrection. 5. The inerrancy of the scriptures. Legalistic and narrow? The first 4 of those are necessary for salvation, and the fifth is said so in scripture itself.(If his birth wasn't virgin, then he wouldn't be the son of God promised by God through Isaiah.) But Rick Warren calls these 5 points "legalistic and narrow." That all but disqualifies him as an Orthodox, Bible believing Christian. Not my words, his own teaching. It is not the fundamentals he is speaking about. It is the movement, which became one that majored on the minors (I dont smoke drink or chew and dont date girls who do.) I have Saddlebacks Foundations series. They affirm all of those fundamentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted September 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted September 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2006 Mr. Felts says that despite his church's troubles, most churches that follow the purpose-driven way are growing. "It takes time and persistence," he says. "You're talking about a new paradigm." Wow, once again, clear New Age terminology. It seems to be springing up everywhere. Glad you happened to quote this, because it reminds me... New Paradigm for what? Just because a person uses a term that is well understood by the culture, and used by another source, does not mean they agree with everything the other source said. The term "paradigm shift" has been adopted by the culture and taken on a meaning that is separate from its new age origins. I agree with that, but taken together with the OTHER factors that link him to the New Age movement, such as the last quote I made in that same post, you cannot deny that the degree of connection is absurd. New Age terminology literally fills the PDL from cover to cover, masked by scripture of course, but some of the "Bibles" he quotes from were written by New Agers too. Again, I see alot of accusations, but have yet to see a substantive example of heresy, which was the accusation many here made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted September 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Whatever the nonperfections in the interveiws posted and in fox news, I was still blessed that day. And since I'm fairly grounded in my beliefs I wasn't hurt either by watching. I guess I have problems separating a feel-good interview from the man's total body of work. And we definitely agree on the problems of the modern evangelical church. Which is why your favorable attitude toward Rick is so baffling. He, McLaren, and other well-known preachers of the modern gospel are the major causes of evangelicalism's demise (yes, demise). I was speaking of him in a very specific setting on a very specific night as opposed to the whole of his ministry. My views on his style of worship would probably curl a few eyebrows even on your forehead (I'm a covenantally modified regulativist) and I don't like the whole of evangelical culture much anyway. I'm just very careful to make the distinction between heresy and other strange errors. Some errors are just errors and others change the gospel to the point that it is no longer there and become heresy. I'm not a charismatic and I believe there are serious errors to be found there, but I would never say it's heresy. Even though I'm not really happy with the charismatic movement's effect on the church either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted September 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2006 Eric, Before you get a head of steam up, read the entire e-book, and check out these websites: Rick's worship leader's website. Video clip of Rick on Charlie Rose's show. Notice how Rick will say some things that are true, then turn around and make false statements. He really is "all things to all men!" My friend Ingred Schlueter says this of the interview: "Warren exhibits a skilled use of the dialectic. True statement. False statement. Then a synthesis of the two that produces rank theological error. Besides being a powerful tool in the Russian Revolution, the use of the dialectic has been useful in American revolutions in education, business and now evangelicalism." [url=http://www.biblebb.com/files/PDLreview-SB.htm]A Purpose Driven Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted September 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2006 Eric, Before you get a head of steam up, read the entire e-book, and check out these websites: Rick's worship leader's website. There is a lot on this web site. What in particular is heresy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted September 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Mr. Felts says that despite his church's troubles, most churches that follow the purpose-driven way are growing. "It takes time and persistence," he says. "You're talking about a new paradigm." Wow, once again, clear New Age terminology. It seems to be springing up everywhere. Glad you happened to quote this, because it reminds me... You are making this term say too much. And just because you googled and new age stuff came up does not prove that it's simply a new age term. It's also a socio political term and a psychological term. Just because a new ager uses a term doesn't make it evil. I'm sure some of them also speak of "accounts payable" or "positive influences" also, but that does not make the terms tainted. There is enough in PDL to criticise without veering off into deep probing left field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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