What happens to those without knowledge of Christ?

[Guest mareesta]

"there is ONE mediator" between man and God, the Man Jesus Christ"

Yes, Jesus is the mediator, the ONE mediator, the ONLY mediator, He is the ONE who decides who will be saved, get to Heaven. There is NO, I repeat NO mediator here on earth who gets to decide who will be saved and get to Heaven or not. NOT ONE person here on earth decides. The ONE and ONLY mediator decides. And nobody knows until they meet the ONE and ONLY mediator after death. And that is what keeps us on our toes, those of us who want to be chosen, keeps us working, striving toward Jesus to be chosen. Otherwise, why bother.

And anyone who does not know who Jesus is, Jesus the ONE and ONLY mediator will decide. And I suspect that He will not hold against them that they never heard of Him.

[HAZARD]

"there is ONE mediator" between man and God, the Man Jesus Christ"

Yes, Jesus is the mediator, the ONE mediator, the ONLY mediator, He is the ONE who decides who will be saved, get to Heaven. There is NO, I repeat NO mediator here on earth who gets to decide who will be saved and get to Heaven or not. NOT ONE person here on earth decides. The ONE and ONLY mediator decides. And nobody knows until they meet the ONE and ONLY mediator after death. And that is what keeps us on our toes, those of us who want to be chosen, keeps us working, striving toward Jesus to be chosen. Otherwise, why bother.

And anyone who does not know who Jesus is, Jesus the ONE and ONLY mediator will decide. And I suspect that He will not hold against them that they never heard of Him.

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And anyone who does not know who Jesus is, Jesus the ONE and ONLY mediator will decide. And I suspect that He will not hold against them that they never heard of Him.

Dear Mareesta, According to Paul in Romans 2:11-15; you are spot on mate!

Haz.

[Guest man]

Also God's name has been spread all over the world for the past few hundred years. Everybody knows who God is.

"Everybody knows who God is".....Not really. You can't make a statement like that because you don't know. You say the past few hundred years, what about the hundreds of years before that?

[SwordFish]

Just wanted to pose this question. There appears to be much discussion on it from various sects.

I am interested in knowing what other Christian denoms/Christian religions, believe regarding those who have never had a knowledge of Christ. For instance, what about someone who has died without ever even hearing about Jesus Christ? Islamists, Hindus, and other peoples easily fall into this category. Seemingly, through no fault of their own, they have not heard the good news. Many are long passed from this world.

I was looking this information up on the Internet a few days ago and I never expected to see such a diverging thought in Christianity. I am fairly well versed on what Mormons believe here and now I know what the United Church of God believes on it, as I read their statement of beliefs.

Some apologists on the net say that these souls are just lost. What say ye?

grapeseed

At the second death they will be thrown in the lake of fire

[HAZARD]

Dear Mareesta, According to Paul in Romans 2:11-15; you are spot on mate!

Haz.

That is not what that is saying.

If God is no respector of persons then why would he allow those who have not heard the gospel to continue living in all the vile sins that can be abominable in nature yet send one who has heard the truth to hell for being a thief or a liar?

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

That makes no sense and is a great contradiction.

Let's take a look at judgement day.

Acts 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Revelation 20:11-13 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

We have the ability through the bible to know what is going to happen in judgement day. We also have the ability to know how to get to heaven and what takes people to hell.

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Yet it is what ithis scripture is saying.

You wrote "If God is no respector of persons then why would he allow those who have not heard the gospel to continue living in all the vile sins that can be abominable in nature yet send one who has heard the truth to hell for being a thief or a liar?"

These people, who have never heard of God or the gospel are judged according to the way they lived their lives in the society they lived in, and according to their conscience. Before I ever heard of God, the Word, the Bible, etc., I knew what was right and what was wrong. My parents, who were not christian taught me the rules by which they lived in the country they were, and I was born. There were rules and laws by which we all lived, Some obeyed these rules and laws, others broke them. I knew it was wriong to steal anothers property, I knew one never abused one's parents, or raped little children, or bashed and robed the elderly. Yet there were people at that time who were doning these things and they will be judged accordingly. Not knowing God is no excuse to commit crime.

Even the American Indians knew there was a Great One, a God who they looked to. They had their own laws by which they lived and some lived by them and others probably never did. They never had the Bible did they? Some would have died with a clear conscience, others without.

Edited October 25, 2006 by HAZARD

[HAZARD]

Just wanted to pose this question. There appears to be much discussion on it from various sects.

I am interested in knowing what other Christian denoms/Christian religions, believe regarding those who have never had a knowledge of Christ. For instance, what about someone who has died without ever even hearing about Jesus Christ? Islamists, Hindus, and other peoples easily fall into this category. Seemingly, through no fault of their own, they have not heard the good news. Many are long passed from this world.

I was looking this information up on the Internet a few days ago and I never expected to see such a diverging thought in Christianity. I am fairly well versed on what Mormons believe here and now I know what the United Church of God believes on it, as I read their statement of beliefs.

Some apologists on the net say that these souls are just lost. What say ye?

grapeseed

At the second death they will be thrown in the lake of fire

________________________________________________________________________________

________

No they wont be thrown in the lake of fire at the second death. What about innocent babies, dying at birth. What about children in India, and as grapeseed said, Islamists, Hindus, and other peoples easily fall into this category. Seemingly, through no fault of their own, they have not heard the good news. Millions who have lived and died in Tibet, central Australia, South America, what about all the millions of people who have died throughout history never having heard of Jesus Christ,or even God, at all?

One needs to read these Scriptures and get a handle on them and try and understand what Paul is stating here.

The fact is, God is no respector of persons. In other words, whether you were born a thousand years ago and never heard of Him or Jesus, He will judge you according to how you lived your life and obeyed your conscience. We can all decipher between good and evil in any century.

"For there is no respect of persons with God (Romans 2:11).

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish with-out law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things CONTAINED IN THE LAW, these having NOT THE LAW, ARE A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES: Which shew the work of THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE also BEARING WITNESS, and their THOUGHTS the mean while EXCUSING ONE ANOTHER;)" (ROMANS 2:11-15).

In other words; "God will deal with every one, including the heathen, who have never heard of the gospel. He will deal with them on the basis of the light they have recieved, and on the basis of obeying their own conscience"

Haz.

[Guest man]

Just wanted to pose this question. There appears to be much discussion on it from various sects.

I am interested in knowing what other Christian denoms/Christian religions, believe regarding those who have never had a knowledge of Christ. For instance, what about someone who has died without ever even hearing about Jesus Christ? Islamists, Hindus, and other peoples easily fall into this category. Seemingly, through no fault of their own, they have not heard the good news. Many are long passed from this world.

I was looking this information up on the Internet a few days ago and I never expected to see such a diverging thought in Christianity. I am fairly well versed on what Mormons believe here and now I know what the United Church of God believes on it, as I read their statement of beliefs.

Some apologists on the net say that these souls are just lost. What say ye?

grapeseed

At the second death they will be thrown in the lake of fire

________________________________________________________________________________

________

No they wont be thrown in the lake of fire at the second death. What about innocent babies, dying at birth. What about children in India, and as grapeseed said, Islamists, Hindus, and other peoples easily fall into this category. Seemingly, through no fault of their own, they have not heard the good news. Millions who have lived and died in Tibet, central Australia, South America, what about all the millions of people who have died throughout history never having heard of Jesus Christ,or even God, at all?

One needs to read these Scriptures and get a handle on them and try and understand what Paul is stating here.

The fact is, God is no respector of persons. In other words, whether you were born a thousand years ago and never heard of Him or Jesus, He will judge you according to how you lived your life and obeyed your conscience. We can all decipher between good and evil in any century.

"For there is no respect of persons with God (Romans 2:11).

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish with-out law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things CONTAINED IN THE LAW, these having NOT THE LAW, ARE A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES: Which shew the work of THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE also BEARING WITNESS, and their THOUGHTS the mean while EXCUSING ONE ANOTHER;)" (ROMANS 2:11-15).

In other words; "God will deal with every one, including the heathen, who have never heard of the gospel. He will deal with them on the basis of the light they have recieved, and on the basis of obeying their own conscience"

Haz.

It just blows me away that people don't get that.

[SwordFish]

Just wanted to pose this question. There appears to be much discussion on it from various sects.

I am interested in knowing what other Christian denoms/Christian religions, believe regarding those who have never had a knowledge of Christ. For instance, what about someone who has died without ever even hearing about Jesus Christ? Islamists, Hindus, and other peoples easily fall into this category. Seemingly, through no fault of their own, they have not heard the good news. Many are long passed from this world.

I was looking this information up on the Internet a few days ago and I never expected to see such a diverging thought in Christianity. I am fairly well versed on what Mormons believe here and now I know what the United Church of God believes on it, as I read their statement of beliefs.

Some apologists on the net say that these souls are just lost. What say ye?

grapeseed

At the second death they will be thrown in the lake of fire

________________________________________________________________________________

________

No they wont be thrown in the lake of fire at the second death. What about innocent babies, dying at birth. What about children in India, and as grapeseed said, Islamists, Hindus, and other peoples easily fall into this category. Seemingly, through no fault of their own, they have not heard the good news. Millions who have lived and died in Tibet, central Australia, South America, what about all the millions of people who have died throughout history never having heard of Jesus Christ,or even God, at all?

One needs to read these Scriptures and get a handle on them and try and understand what Paul is stating here.

The fact is, God is no respector of persons. In other words, whether you were born a thousand years ago and never heard of Him or Jesus, He will judge you according to how you lived your life and obeyed your conscience. We can all decipher between good and evil in any century.

"For there is no respect of persons with God (Romans 2:11).

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish with-out law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things CONTAINED IN THE LAW, these having NOT THE LAW, ARE A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES: Which shew the work of THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE also BEARING WITNESS, and their THOUGHTS the mean while EXCUSING ONE ANOTHER;)" (ROMANS 2:11-15).

In other words; "God will deal with every one, including the heathen, who have never heard of the gospel. He will deal with them on the basis of the light they have recieved, and on the basis of obeying their own conscience"

Haz.

John 3:3

[HAZARD]

Just wanted to pose this question. There appears to be much discussion on it from various sects.

I am interested in knowing what other Christian denoms/Christian religions, believe regarding those who have never had a knowledge of Christ. For instance, what about someone who has died without ever even hearing about Jesus Christ? Islamists, Hindus, and other peoples easily fall into this category. Seemingly, through no fault of their own, they have not heard the good news. Many are long passed from this world.

I was looking this information up on the Internet a few days ago and I never expected to see such a diverging thought in Christianity. I am fairly well versed on what Mormons believe here and now I know what the United Church of God believes on it, as I read their statement of beliefs.

Some apologists on the net say that these souls are just lost. What say ye?

grapeseed

At the second death they will be thrown in the lake of fire

________________________________________________________________________________

________

No they wont be thrown in the lake of fire at the second death. What about innocent babies, dying at birth. What about children in India, and as grapeseed said, Islamists, Hindus, and other peoples easily fall into this category. Seemingly, through no fault of their own, they have not heard the good news. Millions who have lived and died in Tibet, central Australia, South America, what about all the millions of people who have died throughout history never having heard of Jesus Christ,or even God, at all?

One needs to read these Scriptures and get a handle on them and try and understand what Paul is stating here.

The fact is, God is no respector of persons. In other words, whether you were born a thousand years ago and never heard of Him or Jesus, He will judge you according to how you lived your life and obeyed your conscience. We can all decipher between good and evil in any century.

"For there is no respect of persons with God (Romans 2:11).

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish with-out law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things CONTAINED IN THE LAW, these having NOT THE LAW, ARE A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES: Which shew the work of THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE also BEARING WITNESS, and their THOUGHTS the mean while EXCUSING ONE ANOTHER;)" (ROMANS 2:11-15).

In other words; "God will deal with every one, including the heathen, who have never heard of the gospel. He will deal with them on the basis of the light they have recieved, and on the basis of obeying their own conscience"

Haz.

It just blows me away that people don't get that.

Yes, if the above is not true, it will be standing room only in Hell. Imagine how many billions of men, women, and innocent children have died over the ages who have never ever heard of Jesus Christ let alone seen a Bible?. And also, Heaven wont be over croweded under the same circumstance.

Haz.

[Fiosh]

I believe Christ may indeed save those people who do not currently know Him in ways we do not understand or at their point of death or may come to them directly with the Gospel. But it will not be because they have lived moral lives. No one outside of Christ will be saved, we are all equally and totally condemned in our sin, ONLY Christ can remove that sin. This condemnation under sin applies to all humans, no one can ever be good enough to earn their way into heaven, we are as filthy rags on our own, only through Christ can we be saved. If not then Christ was tortured and murdered in vain. We are saved only for the sake of Christ and our faith in Him, not because of what we do or can do (although saving faith of course brings the fruit of acts, which please God).

But we must rely only on the providence of God in this matter. Would a loving God, a God who created all existence, who makes Stephen Hawking look as smart as the stupidest dog, would that God create a world where somebody missed salvation because they had the bad luck of being born in the wrong place or time? If they are to be saved it will be through the work of Christ alone and they will have had to believe in Christ, I think this is possible in ways we will never understand and we should probably leave it at that.

But of course many will reject Christ and be hardened we also know this from scripture.

I stand with Smalcald on this one. I wish I could say,"He took the words right out of my mouth", but he says it far more eloquently than I ever could have.

This is basically what the RCC teaches. We leave them to the mercy of God: "Exd 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

and again in the New Testament...

Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? [is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

There is a Biblical basis for the mercy of God upon the "ignorant"...

1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief.

...and

Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

...and for the fact that God wishes everyone to be saved...

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;

1Ti 2:2 For kings, and [for] all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Peace,

Fiosh