Yahsway Posted January 7, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1959 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Rev 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun: and he cried with a loud voice, saying to ALL the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather togethere for the supper of the great God, that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and those that sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim7 Posted January 7, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2007 Amen Yahsway, The word translated carcase means dead or fallen bodies. Kenod, context governs, not how it is used elsewhere. In fact it is only used twice in the 'New Testament', here in Luke 17:38 and Mat 24:28 and each time the context is about those dead bodies that have been destroyed by the Lord at His coming to Rapture His people. We are not to guess what Christ may have meant when He plainly tells us in context what He meant. God bless, Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted January 7, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/12/1945 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Rev 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun: and he cried with a loud voice, saying to ALL the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather togethere for the supper of the great God, that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and those that sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great." "ALL the birds" ... good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted January 7, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/12/1945 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Amen Yahsway, The word translated carcase means dead or fallen bodies. Kenod, context governs, not how it is used elsewhere. In fact it is only used twice in the 'New Testament', here in Luke 17:38 and Mat 24:28 and each time the context is about those dead bodies that have been destroyed by the Lord at His coming to Rapture His people. We are not to guess what Christ may have meant when He plainly tells us in context what He meant. God bless, Dennis The word "guess" is very condescending, Dennis, and not conducive to discusson. Whether we are right or wrong, let's try to show each other some respect. The Greek word for eagles (aetos - singular; aetoi - plural) is used five times in the NT. The context, as I see it, is the disciples asking where will the ones be taken from. Jesus has told them it is a world wide occurrence, and He now tells them "wherever there are believers feeding on the Word of God". The battle of Armageddon is a localised event and involves ALL the birds, not just the "eagles". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted January 7, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 923 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/03/1974 Share Posted January 7, 2007 billie I've noticed that you are currently missing from this discussion, if you are still having any problems understanding the original verse which you quoted let me know, and I'll do my best to help. Otherwise I have the same comment that a previous poster had........ God Bless you sis Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted January 7, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/12/1945 Share Posted January 7, 2007 billie I've noticed that you are currently missing from this discussion, if you are still having any problems understanding the original verse which you quoted let me know, and I'll do my best to help. Otherwise I have the same comment that a previous poster had........ God Bless you sis Anne It's a discussion forum, Anne, so why not jump in anyway. It's ok for Christians to disagree, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim7 Posted January 7, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2007 No need to be defensive Kenod; Do you really think that the eagles refer to God's people and that the dead bodies that are eaten are strong meat for them? The Strong meat that the saints eat is the Body and Blood of Jesus. Surely these dead bodies that have been destroyed at Jesus coming do not represent the body and blood of Jesus. The Lord has not hidden His word. It is written so that a child can understand it. Yes there are deeper meanings to it, but these do not change or obscure the plain meaning of what is said. The two verses in Revelation have nothing to do with any eating whatsoever. They have to do with flying like an eagle. In order to eat they must first land so that they can eat the dead prey. They word Aetos can also mean vulture, it is not confined to just the eagle. I apologise if I offended you. But I have a hard time coming up with a word to describe the stretch that you make to make what Jesus said figurative. Maybe the word I should have used is 'speculate'. PS Brother: If you are going to present your take on the Scriptures, toughen up, for there are those who will cut you no slack at all when you disagree with them. I have had my character repeatedly impugned on this board for presenting Scripture that disagreed with others. God Bless, Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted January 8, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/12/1945 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) Do you really think that the eagles refer to God's people and that the dead bodies that are eaten are strong meat for them? Eagles is plural; body is singular. The body is the eagles' food, just as the Word of God is the believers' food. The Strong meat that the saints eat is the Body and Blood of Jesus. Surely these dead bodies that have been destroyed at Jesus coming do not represent the body and blood of Jesus. We "eat" the flesh of Jesus Christ by believing what the Bible teaches us about Him. The Word of God is our spiritual food (Luke 4:4). The "dead bodies (plural) that have been destroyed at Jesus' coming" are in Rev 19:17 - that's when ALL the fowls gather together. The words "taken" and "left" in Luke 17:34-36 do not mean destruction. This is the rapture. It is a world wide event (day & night). Rev 19 is a localised event. The reference to Noah and Lot in Luke 17 indicate the immorailty and ungodliness of the times. They show that God's people will be taken to a place of refuge before the judgment falls. The ark was "lift up above the earth" (Gen 7:17). The angels of God physically took hold of Lot and his family, and instructed them to go up into a mountain (Gen 19:16-17). The two verses in Revelation have nothing to do with any eating whatsoever. They have to do with flying like an eagle. In order to eat they must first land so that they can eat the dead prey. They word Aetos can also mean vulture, it is not confined to just the eagle. The Revelation uses the word eagle three times: Rev 4:7, 8:13, 12:14 (8:13 is translated "angel" in KJV). The NT always uses eagle/s to refer to the godly. There is a well accepted word for vultures in Greek. Elsewhere the Bible uses birds or fowls. Brother: If you are going to present your take on the Scriptures, toughen up, for there are those who will cut you no slack at all when you disagree with them. I have had my character repeatedly impugned on this board for presenting Scripture that disagreed with others. Still doesn't make it right for Christians though, does it? Hopefully, I have been able to disagree and state my understanding without making any disparaging comments about your understanding. The Lord has not hidden His word. It is written so that a child can understand it. Jesus said the truth is hidden from the wise and prudent. A young child can believe the Bible, but he/she cannot interpret the Bible. God set teachers in the Church for that purpose. And the Holy Spirit is given to guide us into all truth (John 16:13). I am not a teacher, but I believe I have been taught by one who is. . Edited January 8, 2007 by kenod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim7 Posted January 8, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2007 So is ityour contention where ever body singular is used, it stands for the word of God? Why would God use the word carcase for His word? This makes no sense. The dead bodies refered to are in Luke 17:27 & 29. It says that as in the days of Noah and Lot, where all were destroyed,who were not saved, so shall it be at the 2nd coming. All who are destroyed are those who are 'left behind'. It sure isn't those who are taken. It doesn't matter whether the word 'left' means destroyed, they were destroyed, there are only two groups of people, those taken up to Jesus and those left behind. Those left behind would be the ones destroyed, thus the dead bodies. When Jesus says wherever the body is, that doesn't mean there is only one body. He is making a blanket statement. Absolutely, the 2nd coming of Jesus to take His people to heaven, the place of refuge, is a world wide event. When all those left on earth are destroyed, it is a world wide event. It all happens at the same time. That the NT always uses the word eagles to represent the Godly is an assumption at best. In Luke and Mat it is used to denote birds that eat carcases, those who have been destroyed after the 'rapture'. This is why God 'catches' His people away, to avoid the destruction. God also warned of false teachers. This is why Jesus gave us Luke 17 and Mat 24, to warn us about false teachers who would teach something other than what He said. He warned us that many would try to deceive us as to His coming. Now before you get your feelings hurt, I have not called you a false teacher. It is not unchristian to speak the truth and to identify when someone seeks to spiritualize away the word. The NT has many much stronger words than I will ever use in dealing with these things. Just look at Jesus or Paul. I stand on the clear, contextual meaning of the passage. I have no problem with the Godly eating strong meat. It just doesn't apply here. I understand that the word of God is our food, but the eating and drinking the body and blood of Jesus means allowing Him to possess our entire being and live His life in and through us as your signature indicates that you understand. In Rev 12, God uses the woman to represent His people, not the eagle. He just uses the wings of the eagle to show how they were lifted up. The eagle has nothing to do with the people themselves, just a metaphor, how they were lifted up. God Bless, Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahsway Posted January 8, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1959 Share Posted January 8, 2007 In Yeshua's teaching, those taken away correspond to those who perished in the flood. The corpses of those who perished in the flood became food for the scavenging birds, such as the raven, which Noah released from the ark. So too when Messiah comes, the wicked will be slain and left as food for birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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