The coming Messiah

[Guest idolsmasher]

I was thinking that if the anti christ is able to set up his rule from Jerusalem, is it possible that the Jews will at first (first 3 1/2 years) think that he is the promised messiah. Is it possible that he could also be of Jewish descent. Many bible scholars believe that Gog the leader of Magog will be a leader of Russia. I think most of us would agree that the Lord's return will be soon and I believe that Alexander Putin's mother is a Jew. Could he be the one? Also the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, do you think this will be a rebuilt temple or could it be referring to the dome of the rock? Which stands on the Jewish holy place?

[OneAccord]

Congratulations, you have just asked the million dollar question! Wouldn't every Christian just love to have the answer to this one!!!

[Guest yod]

Also the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, do you think this will be a rebuilt temple or could it be referring to the dome of the rock? Which stands on the Jewish holy place?

jEsus calls this the abomination which makes desolate "spoken by the prophet Daniel"

The fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy had already happened when Jesus said this (Antiochus Ephinese) so what was He referring to?

Antiochus had set up an idol to Zeus or Jupiter or whoever.....and was sacrificing pigs on the altar about 150 BC.

So the people who heard Yeshua say this interpreted the fulfillment to be when Hadrian ransacked Jerusalem and set up an altar to Zeus or Jupiter or whoever...and then began sacrificing pigs on the altar.

When the believers of Jerusalem saw this, they headed for the hills.

Many christians aren't aware that this had a fulfillment since Jesus said it...and also had a fulfillment 150 years before Jesus also.

That doesn't mean that it won't be fulfilled again but I'm not so sure that it "has" to.

[nebula]

I was thinking that if the anti christ is able to set up his rule from Jerusalem, is it possible that the Jews will at first (first 3 1/2 years) think that he is the promised messiah. Is it possible that he could also be of Jewish descent.

I can't imagine the Jews hailing anyone as their Messiah who was not likewise a Jew. I mean, for a Goyim (Gentile) to be the promised Messiah...? Doesn't make sense to me.

As per trying to I.D. the guy, I believe it is still too soon to speculate. After hearing, "This person," and "That person," "is the anti-Christ" for so long, I'm tired of all the guessing and speculating and assuming. But that's just me.

[eve]

Hi,

AC will not be Jewish because "he will have no regard for the gods of his fathers, nor for the god beloved of women.

[Guest idolsmasher]

AC will not be Jewish because "he will have no regard for the gods of his fathers,

There are plenty of Jews that fit this bill. Not all Jews are believers. That's what it is saying, that he forsakes the God of his fathers, but lineage is important to the Jews. Lineage is enough for many of them to accept him if he seems to solve their problems.

That doesn't mean that it won't be fulfilled again but I'm not so sure that it "has" to.

Well, I think it has to because Jesus was giving that as a marker or signpost for believers that the tribulation of the endtime is about to begin. This marks the beginning of the great tribulation and the last 3 1/2 years till the return of Christ. These verses clinch it:

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

This will definitely happen, no doubt about it.

[Guest dove2]

I don't believe it is the Dome of the Rock and this is one reason why:

The Jewish Era (A Christian Magazine In Behalf of Israel) July 1930, page 104

"There has been opened in Jerusalem a Seminary of the Law of Priests. Here priests and rabbies meet to study the laws dealing with the services of the Temple. In some literature which this Seminary has disseminated appear these words: "The glorious day will soon come when the Temple will be erected anew and the sacredotal rites again be introduced. The Temple will stand as a token of glory and majesty to Israel and a torch of light to the whole world." The British United Press reported that "widespread rumors have been confirmed that the specified parts of the Temple have already been manufactured or prepared in many countries and are waiting and ready to be transported to Palestine and assembled at at moment's notice. A large group of Jerusalem Jews have petitioned the League of Nations for a portion of the old Temple site to be awarded to the Jewish nation." ---- Alliance Weekly.

Now I know this was before Israel ever became its own Nation. But, you can believe these parts of the Temple are still waiting to be sent to Israel (no longer Palestine) and "assembled at a moment's notice." It is something to think that we could go to bed one night and wake up the next morning and the Temple be standing and sacrifices being carried out. Impossible one might say. Not so, this is an actual article and affirmed by the Alliance Weekly. This is not gossip.

[Guest yod]

The Temple sacrifices could begin again at any time...in a TABERNACLE. This could be put up in a day or two.

I can't imagine a scenario where they would do this in any place but the Temple Mount...but it could happen today.

And the Lord called Cyrus of Persia his "anointed" (Moshiach or Messiah) in the book of Isaiah so it's not impossible that the jews would accept a gentile as Messiah

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings All,

The MAJOR problem I see with the rebuilding of a Temple in Jerusalem is:

1 Chron 28:10-12 Take heed now; for the LORD hath chosen thee to build an house for the sanctuary: be strong, and do it. 11 Then David gave to Solomon his son the pattern of the porch, and of the houses thereof, and of the treasuries thereof, and of the upper chambers thereof, and of the inner parlours thereof, and of the place of the mercy seat, 12 And the pattern of all that he had by the spirit, of the courts of the house of the LORD, and of all the chambers round about, of the treasuries of the house of God, and of the treasuries of the dedicated things:

The Greek word used for THIS temple is "hieron", which refers to "the temple and all its surrounds and its component parts".

Some have claimed that only a "tabernacle" or even just an "altar" be made wherein sacrifices can be made. ANY true Jew recognizes that if a temple is to be built, that in order for God to be pleased with it, IT MUST BE MADE ACCORDING TO PATTERN! This ain't gonna happen folks. Jesus made this remark about the HIERON:

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Let's refer ALSO to Daniel:

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

When all things in heaven and earth are brought under the feet of Jesus, THEN IS THE CONSUMMATION. Please note that the Temple (Hieron) will remain DESOLATE till then.

In the NT we find:

Heb 8:5-6 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

I may ask, "In what TEMPLE is Jesus now serving?" The NT gives us this:

2 Cor 5:1-2 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Jesus made this statement:

Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

This last word "temple" is the Greek Word "NAOS". It is also used here:

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The Greek word NAOS means "the HOLY PLACE", or the "MOST HOLY PLACE". The OT refers to it as the "Holy of Holies", but US as not having yet been perfected, are immediately OUTSIDE of it (which is referred to as the "Holy Place"), awaiting the day when we shall enter into the Holy of Holies on a permanent basis. THE NAOS DOES NOT CONSIST OF THE WHOLE TEMPLE (HIERON) WHICH CONSISTS OF ALL THE BUILDINGS AND ITS SURROUNDS AND ITS CONSTITUENT PARTS.

Also NOWHERE in the entire NT is ANY reference made to the REBUILDING OF THE HIERON. Only reference to its destruction as was also noted in Daniel.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest yod]

hey Pops!

I miss seeing you around...did you disappear for a while or was it me?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I don't think Matthew 24's temple is necessarily future since the romans did exactly what Yeshua said would happen...and there was also the "abomination of desolation" present at that time.

I also think that Matthew 24 "could" be a local prophecy for Israel alone instead of the entire world.

but having said that I also think that it's possible for a future fulfillment as well. You mention that "we" are the Temple and that is correct but those outside of the faith might not agree and decide to build a Temple anyway.

They might not necessarily be led by the Spirit in doing so either so anything is still possible as I see it.