Who Crucified Jesus?

[Guest yod]

you just proved his point, Idol.

You run when we ask you to clarify your "christian" response. Why do you do this?

It sure gives the impression that you don't want to answer.

[Guest idolsmasher]

I'm not going to waste my time an energy any more! There are more productive things to do with my time.

[Guest yod]

Idol wrote:

You continue to be in a state of denial toward the sins of Israel. At least you did finally admit that Palestinians are routinely discriminated against, but of course you tried to justify it. Talking to you on this issue is just a waste of my time because you are a closed book and not open to other people's legitimate arguments

which totally ignores the post above his where I wrote

Yes, Israel has plenty of room for improvement but you never give them any credit

Jacob has been persecuted since the days of Ishmael. They have good reason for paranoid because the arabs ARE out to get them!

If you would acknowledge that they have a legitimate reason for being swift and thorough with their civil defense it would go a long way

I see some residual of resentment against Israel because you think they are making policies based on race against Arabs.

While that is the end result of some of their laws it is not the intent and this is where you are making the biggest mistake. These things happen out of a fear based on fact. Palestinians are STILL sworn to the death of all jews. This gives Israel no choice but to suspect every single one of them and build walls to protect themselves.

Can you acknowledge that?

So are you saying that you don't acknowledge this matter of fact or that you WON'T acknowledge this?

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Yod,

I believe the facts are all on Shilo's side here because I've personally invested my life to finding out the truth. Yes, Israel has plenty of room for improvement but you never give them any credit for doing the "christian" thing. They have suffered for their efforts to help their neighbors by only getting treachery in return.

I guess I left Idolsmasher alone too long and now you have gone and frustrated him to bits. Shame on you both.

You make the statement "you never give them any credit for doing the "christian" thing."

This happens to be the core of your "philosophy", as if Israel had repented and have learned to do ANYTHING CHRISTIAN. They, as a whole, are a nation of -anti-christs- and you don't want to see or acknowledge this. Here is what the scriptures say:

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Romans 9:31-33 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

You may also want to read 1 & 2 John for a review of the term "antichrist".

When you two can acknowledge and understand their condition, THEN you might grasp the meaning of what Idolsmasher and I have been talking about.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest yod]

And here you go with ole' double standard...second verse

The word "christian" was italicized because I DON'T expect them to be christians but apparently everyone else does...you included.

Yet, STILL they are the only ones who are trying to help their neighbor in this situation. They were the first volunteers when thousands were killed in Iran...but their help was refused because they are "jewish"

Where was the outrage for that?

Meanwhile the historically "christian" nations are allowing persecution of the jews by their silence and double standards....as you have so eloquently exemplified.

[Guest yod]

They, as a whole, are a nation of -anti-christs- and you don't want to see or acknowledge this

And this poppycock needs to be dealt with also

Which nation is NOT full of anti-christs? You would find a higer percentage of true believers in Israel than in most nations of the earth.

Indonesia is more anti-christ than Israel will ever be. Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Eygpt, etc...etc...etc...

Why are you so narrowly hateful towards the apple of God's eye?

[Guest idolsmasher]

If you want to talk about this issue Yod, I'd be glad to talk with you privately through PM. I don't want to give Shiloh any more opportunity to rant and rave and rail. Frankly, it's not worth my time to try and answer his every point because it would take too long and there is no fruit in it.

Meanwhile the historically "christian" nations are allowing persecution of the jews by their silence and double standards....

From my experience this simply isn't true. Anti-semetism is strongly denounced in every western nation and people are routinely prosecuted on charges of anti-semitism. Anyone who is in a public office who even makes the slightest suggestion of wrongdoing by Jews gets slandered and often lose their jobs and carreers and their lives are basically ruined. This does not constitute silence or tolerance of anti-semetism. I think alot of this type of rheteoric is propaganda to gain and maintain world sympathy and support for zionism. True zionism does not include a Palestinian state.

[Guest idolsmasher]

Indonesia is more anti-christ than Israel will ever be. Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Eygpt, etc...etc...etc...

Islam as a religion is much more Tolerant of Christians and Jews than Judaism is of Christians and Muslims. I have read the Koranic verses admonishing them to be friendly towards "the people of the Book", meaning Jews and Christians. It is basically the Jewish treatment of the surrounding Arab countries and the Palestinians that have bred Islamic militancy, as well as western and Christian support of Israel.

[Guest yod]

I wish we could talk about this in the open so everyone here could try to get an understanding. That isn't possible if we take it off list. The frustration only gets worse as we avoid taking this head-on.

The debate does seem to end when you disappear...and it does seem to be at this same exact point every time. Then, subsequent threads have to boil up to this point again. Why not deal with it compeletely where all can see?

What if we could get Shilo to tone down his usage of the word "you"....would that be fruitful?

From my experience this simply isn't true. Anti-semetism is strongly denounced in every western nation and people are routinely prosecuted on charges of anti-semitism.

I can't think of a single example of someone being prosecuted for anti-semitism. Where does that happen?

However, it is easy to show where people are prosecuted by muslims for being friendly to the jews. I have a Palestinian friend whose brother was killed by Arafat for that.

Then there are also nations who prosecute and kill someone for being christian. These are the very same nations who are anti-semetic. Why would any christian support them? I just can't figure out your reasoning for siding with those who hate the King of the Jews?

Anyone who is in a public office who even makes the slightest suggestion of wrongdoing by Jews gets slandered and often lose their jobs and carreers and their lives are basically ruined.

Again, I can't think of a single example. Who has that happened to?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen...but do you have any proof?

Let's not spread propoganda.

IN America someone might lose an election for being anti-semetic but that is how it should be. We don't want bigots of any kind in office.

I think alot of this type of rheteoric is propaganda to gain and maintain world sympathy and support for zionism.

It is only propoganda when it isn't true. While I don't trust any media organization without verification, Israel is the only nation in the Middle East with a free press....and Arab governments have just lied too many times to have any credibility. In other words...it takes a LOT more verification to believe a story in the state-owned Arab press.

True zionism does not include a Palestinian state

I agree. It is not the purpose of zionism to create nations for other people just as the Declaration of Independance was not intended to create Canada.

Yet, Israel is still the only nation who will absorb these unfortunate people who have been exploited as political pawns by the Eygptians, The Saudis, Syria, Iran, and Jordan as a means of revenge for losing their miliatary campaigns against the jews.

Not to mention supposely "christian" groups who use this to support their Replacement Theology. Is that where you come from?

Do you believe that all promises made to Israel have been transferred to the church?

[Guest idolsmasher]

What if we could get Shilo to tone down his usage of the word "you"....would that be fruitful?

This has been my complaint about Shiloh all along. I don't mind him expressing his views, but he has a personal vendetta and routinely engages in slurs and accusations of a direct personal nature. He's the only person I am aware of that has the green light to do this on worthyboards.

I can't think of a single example of someone being prosecuted for anti-semitism. Where does that happen?

This happens all the time in Canada under the hate crimes legislation, and I believe many countries in Europe have similar legislation.

IN America someone might lose an election for being anti-semetic but that is how it should be. We don't want bigots of any kind in office.

Problem is that alot of times it's not truly anti-semitism or hateful, and yet they end up getting sacked.

It is only propoganda when it isn't true.

Exactly!

I just can't figure out your reasoning for siding with those who hate the King of the Jews?

Does that include Jews?

I agree. It is not the purpose of zionism to create nations for other people

And in the case of Palestinians, it is not the zionist intention to even allow it. The intention is to displace or kill the Palestinians and have their land for Israel.

Yet, Israel is still the only nation who will absorb these unfortunate people who have been exploited as political pawns by the Eygptians, The Saudis, Syria, Iran, and Jordan as a means of revenge for losing their miliatary campaigns against the jews.

You are wrong about that, they certainly don't want to absorb the Palestinian people into Israel because it would challenge Jewish control.

Do you believe that all promises made to Israel have been transferred to the church?

I had never even heard the term "replacement theology" until I came to worthyboards but basically yes, I believe the Jews forsook God when they forsook Jesus and as Christ told them would happen, the kingdom was taken from them and given to those who have accepted the messiahship and kingship of Jesus Christ. Of course, I don't believe they are really forsaken as individuals at all because they still have the opportunity to accept Him, but Just that God's kingdom is no longer race based. I don't believe in two peoples of God, only those who are covered by the blood of the Lamb Jesus Christ!