Douay Posted October 30, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 287 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 39 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2003 another question that has yet to be answered, is which sin is worse then another??? Look at the law of the land we have different crimes that are worse than others. I see it sort of the same way. I forgot the Bible passage where this comes from but it does also say in the Bible that a sin is a sin no real distinction, but one should think that murder would be worse than telling a little white lie. I guess it doesn't really matter if you don't believe in purgatory or being able to lose salvation. Catholics believe this in conjunction with having to atone for sins after death before being able to reach heaven, being spiritually purified so that you can stand before the Lord in a pure manner. Douay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted October 30, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted October 30, 2003 what does it take to be classified as a saint? how many miricles and of what types? I am pretty sure it is 3 and the only kind I know of are the ones that God performs, in this case through someone. There are several qualifying factors such as devotion to God, living piously, having performed 3 miracles, I don't know all the facts, I know it takes a long time, I know that they are scrutinized very much but this info is available online I have read it online before. Douay Yet the Bible gives sainthood to the most commonof believers. How could this have become such a high honor in the RCC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted October 30, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2003 ALRIGHT !!!!!!!! according to you then, all i have to do is have three (3) miricles worked thru me in order for me to be a saint.... lets start with the most recent that God did; there was Katherine, Joyce, Lexi, to name three, and then there are several, that will remain nameles, does that make me more of a saint then the next guy that has cast out demons? or how about the one that has not had any miricles worked thru them but has spoken prophecy or has a word of wisdom or knowledge from God.... I live a clean life ( since i have repented of my sins and keep Jesus in my heart and His house clean ).... I only have one wife..... have two children of my own, and three that my wife had from previous, they are all living a proper life..... I am sorry, I do not go with the papers that man give for elevating some one....I dont agree with the Credentials that man gives to another man, they dont mean a thing, those credentials and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee here, those little pieces of paper are just that valuable.... I get my coffee for 35 cents and i dont have them credentials..... Who is it that really ordains the ministers of God???? Who is it that really ordains the Pastors/priest???? hint : it aint man. am I being disrespectful towards the leaders of the congregations? no, the receive the respect due them and that due the office..... God does not call the qualified..... God qualifies, the Called..... if only the qualified were called, there would have been 6 saducees, and 6 pharasees, instead of fishermen, a physician, tax collector, and other commoners, shoot, there might even have been a carpenter, being that was a skilled tradesman, a trade with respect among the people...... as for me, if I never reach "saint hood" as far as man is concerned, that is ok..... not a factor in my Salvation, for that was free...... also the Gifts of the Spirit are free.... dont have to earn them..... just have to be following the Lord Jesus Christ...... I understand how people can believe a man over that of the written Word of God, for they are afraid of what God will do, they are ashamed of their actions, or inactions... even as the nation of Israel was, they could not even look upon Moses face after Moses had been in the presence of the Lord God..... he had to wear a vale over his face when he spoke with the people.... like Paul ( Saul ) when the Lord came to him and showed Himself to him on the road to damascus, the briliance so bright, that it blinded Paul..... like a kid that does something that is totally against what his dad keeps telling him..... for instance, Dont Play Ball In The House..... the law, the commandment from dad.... the kid keeps playing ball in the house against the dads rules...... and a lamp gets broke..... who does the kid run to???? Mom of course, hoping that she can soften the blow that dad will deliver..... wrong, mom says she has nothing to do with this, and sends the kid to see dad.... the kid kicks the dirt, dilly dallies around, hoping that time will help, but it dont.... when he finally comes before the judgement seat of dad, his head is so low that he can not look even at dads belt, or even his knees, much less dads face.... the thing is, dad's love for this kid is so great, that when the kid tells dad what he done, and says he is sorry, that dad's belt does not move from its position of holding up pants to being that of holding up the law..... it continues to hold up pants.... and thru dads grace, the kid has been let off..... the kid accepted dads grace..... the kid still can not look up to see dads face.... he is unsure about what is going on, even thou he knows it was forgiven........ so the kid listens to his friends advice, telling him that it is just a ploy, that soon, when he is least expecting it, dad will come down on him in a flash of lightening..... where is the kids mind now???? now the guilt is back and he is afraid to look into dads face for a long time, this deed is still on his mind, he thinks that he has been just placed on parole, not aquitted, not pardoned..... just on parole.... satan does that to us.... wants us to think we are just on parole for our deeds, but that is not so, God aquitted us, we have been totally pardoned of all our sins, past, present and future...... we have the ability to look into the Face of God.... we need not be ashamed of what we are......WE ARE GODS CHILDREN....... WE HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED INTO THE ROYAL FAMILY............. WE ARE FREE, NO LONGER UNDER THE PENALTY OF THE LAW..... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Angeledei Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 mike - Just in case you TRULY want to know the answer to this question about how one becomes a saint and you weren't just BAITING us: The road to sainthood begins at the grass-roots. Ordinary Christians, perhaps in a parish or a religious community, recognize that someone of extraordinary holiness has lived among them. The memory of that person inspires them. The story of his or her life is told, perhaps in a book. People pray to the person, asking intercession for some favor, and their prayers may be answered. Extraordinary signs, perhaps a cure from sickness, occur. A local group may be formed which seeks to make this person's life and gifts more widely known. After a long period of time, sometimes many years, the bishop of the diocese where that person lived may be asked to begin the local process for declaring a saint. If he sees merit in the request, he sets up a board of experts to investigate the person's life, soundness of faith and reputation for holiness. Those who knew the person are interviewed. If miracles are attributed to that person's intercession, they must verified by medical experts. Finally the bishop must ascertain from the other bishops of the region if this person is known and venerated more widely than in one local area. Then, if there is reason to proceed further, the bishop may petition Rome to begin the process of beatification. Beatification Beatification is the next step toward sainthood. It begins when the local bishop provides the materials he has accumulated to the Vatican's Congregation for the Causes of Saints. Using the materials, officials of the congregation create an historical-critical account of the candidate's life and spirituality. One important criteria sought at this stage is the historical importance of the candidate: Did he or she meet a particular challenge of their time and place? Did the candidate offer a new example of holiness to the world in which he lived? Or was he truly a martyr, one who died for faith in Jesus Christ? If the candidate was martyred, a miracle need not be sought. If the candidate did not die as a martyr, then one miracle after death must be proven, through the scrutiny of a body of medical experts. Once they find it acceptable, and the candidate's life is judged truly heroic by a group of theological experts and cardinals, then the pope can declare that beatification may proceed. After the beatifcation takes place, the candidate can be called blessed and veneration may be offered by the local church. The pope can then go further and canonize the blessed. Canonization Canonization is the final step that declares someone a saint. It means that the candidate, already called blessed, is entered into the worldwide list of saints recognized by the Roman Catholic Church. First, however, in the case of a candidate who is not a martyr, the church looks for another authentic miracle attributed to the candidate's intercession, as a sign from God of the candidate's heroic holiness. Then, if the candidate's reputation for holiness continues to grow worldwide, the pope may decide to canonize. The church does not claim that its own list of saints in exhaustive. In fact, its celebration of the Feast of All Saints on November 1st points to a "huge crowd which no one could count from every nation, race, people, and tongue." (Revelations 7) The church's list of canonized saints is only meant to witness to God's grace at work through every time and place, from the first centuries until now. If there is any trend in the process of canonization it is the search for more "lay" saints: mothers and fathers, men and women who were active in the world of family, business and politics and showed themselves to be holy in a secular world. The church is looking for original saints, who responded to the unique needs of their times, and so can open the way of holiness to others. Above all, the saints are examples of how to follow Jesus Christ in every circumstance. "In the lives of those who shared in our humanity and yet were transformed into especially successful images of Christ, God vividly manifests to men his presence and his face. He speaks to us in them, and gives us a sign of his Kingdom, to which we are powerfully drawn, surrounded as we are by so many witnesses ( cf. Hebrews 12,1), and having such an argument for the truth of the gospel." (Lumen Gentium 50, Vatican II) Traditional Roman Catholic Board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted October 30, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2003 I do have a question. As most know, I was raised RC as a child. When I was little I was assigned a "patron saint". In my case, it was Saint Teresa of the Roses. I never understood what that was all about. Why is someone "assigned" a patron saint? I don't know anything about "Saint Teresa" so perhaps you do. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted October 30, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2003 wow, i actually got an answer to something i asked, took a while to get one that was some what under standable............ even thou that is a bunch of stuff that i dont believe, how can man determine who is a saint and who is not, that would be telling God who I want in heaven.... like i said, tha piece of paper means nothing to God.... what means something to God is what is in the heart... as far as baiting, maybe I did, you are here, why, i am i am not really sure, what has been spoken of in this forum would not even be thought about being posted in another, that i was drawn into, and wont be going back to...... ( dont think they would let me anyways.... ) for me, I will let God move me to that position if and when God wants me there, personnally, i will be happy in one of the out laying servants quarters, just so long as I bask in the Glory of the Father.... well, I will let you be to your human leaders and traditions, and "church" teachings...... I will stay with the Spirit of God and His Holy Word. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted October 30, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2003 What do you say of those saints and doctors of the Church who lived prior to the Protestant REVOLT? What do you say to the saints who died for their faith in the coliseums of Rome before their supposed "brothers" became constantines harlots? Constantine saw how the early Christians suffered bravely for their faith, he admired their strength and sought to harness it for his own worldly lust for power. So he made up a lie about seeing a vision of a sign of a cross to con Christians to fight for him thus allowing him to become Emperor of Rome. As we know he deceived many into giving up following the Messiah to fight for worldly power with him. The "church" that was born of this harlotry against the teachings of Jesus was the catholic church. From that day on the persecution of true Christians became the responsibility of that false Church born out of murder and fornication with satanic worldly power of Rome. You are right the Church did start with the resurrection of the Messiah Jesus, but that Church has NEVER been divided. The catholic "church" has nothing to do with the body of faith, satan offered them worldly power and riches and they took the bait. All Praise The Ancient Of Days So either you are saying that the gates of hell did prevail against the Church or that there was a Satanic takeover of the Catholic church which prevailed against the remnants of the true Christians church. Who are they that we have never heard of, which were beaten back by the Catholics and still have not been discovered? Douay I suppose this is where the mindset of the worldly differs from the mindset of the Spiritual. When the True Christians where dying in the coliseums was the satanic roman empire having a victory over them? What does it mean to have a victory over satan? I'll tell you. To die with Jesus is to have a great victory over satan. Our victory is a very personal one. If we are in eternity with God we have our victory over satan. Now for your thinking. So either you are saying that the gates of hell did prevail against the Church or that there was a Satanic takeover of the Catholic church which prevailed against the remnants of the true Christians church. Neither. satan did have a victory over all who chose to follow constantine and kill their enemies. But he never had a victory against those who have suffered persecutions and died holding on to the faith at the hands of catholics with their burning at the stake and their inquisitions and religious wars. II Corinthians 10:3,4 "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds." You see Douay, you see victory as conquest and control of the kingdoms of this world. Your crusaders did gain the "holy land" but they lost their salvation in the process The Messiah said: Matthew 16 25For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? The Messiah also said. John 18:36 36Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." Who are they that we have never heard of, which were beaten back by the Catholics and still have not been discovered? They are called Christians Douay, the spirit has been calling them out of this world ever since the day of penticost. In every generation they have headed the call, they have lived their lives given love shared their faith. Many have met violent ends But they all have one thing in comon they all have victory over satan. All Praise The Ancient Of Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Angeledei Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Assigned a Patron Saint is basically to whom you were named after. Whether your first or middle name. If neither happens to be the name of a saint, your parents would have picked one. Basically the Patron Saint is one who would be close to you and pray for you throughout your life. Saint Teresa of the Roses also known as St. Theresa of Lisieux or Theresa of the Little FLower. You can read about her at St. Theresa of the Little Flower Hope that helped Traditional Roman Catholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusislord Posted October 31, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 251 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/31/1943 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Assigned a Patron Saint is basically to whom you were named after. Whether your first or middle name. If neither happens to be the name of a saint, your parents would have picked one. Basically the Patron Saint is one who would be close to you and pray for you throughout your life. Saint Teresa of the Roses also known as St. Theresa of Lisieux or Theresa of the Little FLower. You can read about her at St. Theresa of the Little Flower Hope that helped Traditional Roman Catholic Anbeledie........ will you give me a scripture for that lhis statement....... i mean one that backs it up...... i have not one JESUS IS MY EVERYTHING...... NOT SAINTS. GOD BLESS YOU IF JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR SAVIOUR AND NOT THE RCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted October 31, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Ordinary Christians, perhaps in a parish or a religious community, recognize that someone of extraordinary holiness has lived among them. So this must be the root of the misconception? The Bible never confers "ainthood" to a certain person because of their virtuous living. Rather, all the believers in Christ are called saints. I ask, why do common Catholics not call each other saints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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