Hell and eternal torment

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

Well, here is a link that has been on my favourites for months, containing people's supposed visions of both heaven and hell

I must admit, I have not been able to bring myself to view or listen to the videos/audio files pertaining to the subject of hell.

I am too scared, in all honesty.

Nevertheless, I keep them there for such a time as I am secure enough in my own mind to view these things.....if such a time ever comes....

But I post them here for your perusal.

Blessings,

Stephen

http://www.spiritlessons.com/

When I asked God back in 1992[ {re <1John4:1-6> test} if I should say anything about the horror past horror of the "Good vs Evil" full-time study of the prior 18 months-first part primarily natural, the rest supernatural plus], He replied and I quote:

"Tell them you've been to hell and back."

Which I just did.

[StewartP]

Eternal damnation.

There is no denying that it is clear from Jesus' teachings as well as many other scriptures already quoted in this thread that it is an unshakable pillar of Christian doctrine.

And thus one (of the many) reasons I reject god.

Either:

1. It is not logical. God is love. he loves mankind. he loves me and has a personal plan for me. And yet will condem me to eternal damnation.

2. It is logical, (folowing discours on free will etc) and I cannot cleave to a being so heartless. I will have nothing to do with him.

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

Eternal damnation.

There is no denying that it is clear from Jesus' teachings as well as many other scriptures already quoted in this thread that it is an unshakable pillar of Christian doctrine.

And thus one (of the many) reasons I reject god.

Either:

1. It is not logical. God is love. he loves mankind. he loves me and has a personal plan for me. And yet will condem me to eternal damnation.

2. It is logical, (folowing discours on free will etc) and I cannot cleave to a being so heartless. I will have nothing to do with him.

One of the 7 statements our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ gave from the Cross:

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

From Scripture and other sources [e.g. "Passion of the Christ" where the devil in Gethsemene told Jesus that he couldn't pay for the sins of the Universe] Jesus was unspeakably terrified in Gethsemene-blood came from his pores. From a Bible dictionary I have the statement-"Jesus seems to have died literally of a broken heart"

From memory of the back of one of Max Lucado's books approx this:"Jesus would rather go to hell for you rather than be in heaven without you".

Ephesians 3:19 "...to know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge..."

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Hbr/Hbr002.html#top

...

Hbr 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Isa 52:13

Edited October 13, 2006 by ajesuschrist_mathetes

[jaisum]

Below is a short but concise sermon explaining that Hell is not Forever, i have copy and pasted it -

Peace

Jai Patel

********************************************************************************

******

IS HELL FOREVER? By Pastor Harry Walther

"If you reject Jesus as Savior

and Lord, you shall burn forever,

Eternal Torment in Hell."

A quote from any Baptist Pastor worth

his weight in Sunday Donations.

WARNING! THIS IS AN INFLAMMATORY PAGE FOR MANY REASONS. IF YOU START TO FEEL A LITTLE RAGE, STEP AWAY FROM YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN, TAKE A DEEP BREATHE AND ASK YOURSELF, "WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE?"

My belief about "Eternal Hell" by Pastor Harry, a long overdue and much needed page. It is time to set the captives free and the captives are us.

I always had a problem with the "Hell For Ever" Doctrine as it seems so inconsistent with a Loving God. Why would a GOD of Love and Mercy allow people to literally burn forever in extreme torment? This is not only inhuman it would be more what we expect from a Book of Satan and how the Devil treats those who reject him.

It seems contradictory, almost schziophrenic to tell a person, "God loves you wants to bring you to Heaven. But if you reject Him, He will burn you in Hell Fire for all of eternity. But He loves you."

True, YHWH GOD gave mankind free will and we have the right and ability to choose God's Savior or reject Him. We also have the free will to do good to our fellow man or prey upon others for our own pleasure and greed.

Ultimately we do choose our destiny be it Heaven or Hell. But since none of us asked to be born into this world and face the choice of Heaven or Hell, it seems Merciless, Brutal and Sadistic of God to condemn people (who reject Salvation) TO BURN IN TORMENT FOR ALL OF ETERNITY!

At this point, Baptists and other Fundamentalists (who seem to love the Doctrine of "Eternal Hell Fire and Torment) will scream "God doesn't send people to hell. People send themselves there."

True, God does not send people to Hell. People do self-condemn themselves to Hell but it is YHWH GOD who set up this punishment and not man or unseen forces beyond the control of God.

ETERNAL TORMENT AND BURNING IN

A HELL FOREVER IS "OVERKILL"

"Hell For Ever" is a case where The Punishment Exceeds The Crime and seems to violate the nature of God, which is Love and Mercy. This would be like the Penalty for stealing a loaf of bread is being beaten half to death or having your hand cut off (as literally taught in The Koran).

I do not believe The Bible teaches that Hell Is Forever. I believe that Hell will last for a space of time (1000 years) and then be no more, that Hell and those in it will be "disintegrated" in an act of YHWH GOD'S Ultimate Mercy.

Now I will show you why I do not believe HELL IS FOREVER and you can decide for yourself what is true.

To start our search for The Truth, lets start with John:3:16 which is the heart and crux of The Gospel. (we will explore six, key verses of Scripture dealing with Heaven and Hell).

VERSE ONE

"FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD

HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN

SON, THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES IN

HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE

EVERLASTING LIFE.

"Perish or everlasting life". . . I don't see JESUS saying, "Burning in Hell For Ever vs Everlasting Life, do you? "Perish" seems to mean destruction and the word perish in Greek is Apollymi and means total destruction.

VERSE TWO

"DO NOT FEAR THOSE WHO CAN

ONLY KILL THE BODY BUT FEAR

GOD WHO CAN DESTROY YOUR

BODY AND SOUL IN HELL."

(Matt:10:28).

This verse spoken by JESUS seems to clarify JN:3:16 as to what it means to "perish". We are told that in Hell, GOD can destroy both your body and soul.

People who are cast into Hell (Mt:10:28) are not burning for all of eternity. There comes an end to their torment, A Finality, the destruction of both body and soul in hell.

VERSE THREE

9 "And the third angel followed

saying with a loud voice, "If any

man worships The Beast and his

Image and receives his mark in

his forehead or right hand,

10 "The same shall drink of the

Wrath of God, poured out upon

the world, and he shall be

Tormented with fire and brim-

stone (hell) in the presence of

the holy angels and The Lamb

11 "and the smoke of their

torment ascendeth up for ever

and ever and they shall have

No rest day or night, who worships

The Beast and receives the Mark

of his name." (Rev:14:9-11)

During The Tribulation, God will send His Angels to give mankind the Final Warning, that "all who take the mark of The Beast (and worship Satan) will be tormented in Hell, and the smoke of their toment acsendeth up for ever and ever and they shall have no rest day or night."

This verse seems to say that "HELL IS FOREVER". But what about the other two Gospel verses we just read? What about Jn:3:16 and Matt:10:28 where Jesus said, "Our soul and body can be destroyed (perish) in Hell?" Does The Bible contradict itself? Not at all because we still have eight chapters left in Revelation.

VERSE FOUR

13 "And the sea gave up the dead

which were in them; and death and

Hell delivered up the dead which

were in them and they were judged

according to their works."

14 "And death and Hell were

Cast into the Lake of fire.

This is the Second Death.

15"And whosoever was not found

written in the book of life

was cast into the lake of fire."

(Rev:20:14-15).

"And Death and Hell will deliver up their dead". The Bible is clear as day! People will not burn in Hell For Ever, as Billy Graham and The Baptists so boldy proclaim.

I believe that Hell is in the center of the earth because the center of the earth is a burning fiery "hell". This is why "Hell is down" and why we point up for Heaven as we gaze beyond the stars.

Then "Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire" = which is called The "Second Death". I believe this represents The COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF A PERSON- BODY-SOUL- SPIRIT = TOTAL DISINTEGRATION.

VERSE SIX

And I saw a new heaven

and a new earth: for the

first heaven and the first

earth were passed away

And the sea was no more.

(Rev:21:1)

Now we see the "heavens and earth" itself (along with Death and Hell) cast into the lake of Fire which can either be The Sun or a dimensional lake of Fire, hotter than anything imaginable.

Hell Is Not Forever After All. Look at that! People suffer for their sins in this subterranean Place of Darkness and Flames, then they are cast into The LAKE OF FIRE = The Second Death and are no more.

What about Rev:14 that says "Those who take the mark of The Beast shall be tormented forever, night and day?"

1- well night and day is relative as it involves time and space. If God destroys the "heavens and earth" (the universe) then time, night and day, will cease to exist.

2- The smoke of their torment, the literal smoke and screams of those who suffer and burn in HELL will echo thruout the universe for all eternity or until again, the universe is destroyed.

This concept of SOUL DISINTEGRATION is consistent with YHWH GOD'S nature of Love and Mercy. JESUS taught us, Blessed are the merciful for you shall obtain mercy." Should not the Mercy of God far exceed our own?

TOTAL SOUL DISINTEGRATION has a sad note, that many people are so proud and wicked, they must be DISINTEGRATED, just as if they never even existed. Yet God still uses the wicked to work good, so their existence upon earth had some value after all.

God used Hitler and his Nazi's to bring about The Restoration of Israel as a nation, the Jewish homeland. (14 May 1948). In my own life, God allowed thieves to steal my hemi race engine. This was so I would come to realize there is far more to life than racing a car around a track and set my life path of Seeking GOD and His Will for my life.

You can probably look back in your own life and see how God used evil (people who choose to do harm) to help steer you towards Salvation.

Final Note: In Rev:20:13, We again see those in Hell (center of earth) delivered up from Hell and stand before God where as "their works in life are judged". I believe here too, YHWH GOD will give those souls (who suffered in hell's torment for 1000 years) A LAST CHANCE to repent and make Heaven.

YET AS UNBELIEVABLE AS IT SOUNDS, NONE WILL TAKE THIS OFFER! THEY WILL RATHER BE DISINTERGRATED THAN TO SERVE GOD IN HEAVEN.

Does this seem too unbelievable, too hard to accept? Well if it is- it is because you are not one of THE WICKED. If you yourself know (that after torment in Hell) you would fall on your knees and plead with God for Forgiveness, its because YOU are not one of the Wicked (who harden their hearts to God). Those who would repent after Hell, will repent upon Earth, either Before The Tribulation starts or most certainly during this darkest of times.

So now if someone asks you, "Is Hell Forever?" You can answer them with a clear conscience and with no conflict in your spirit and say "No it is not."

Now if this page is causing you to foam at the mouth and fill your head with rage, then run to the mirror and take a long look! See how warped and tormented your own soul has become as you SCREAM for The Eternal Torment for people who you deem as the "wicked" while crying for "mercy" for yourself.

And if you are a young Christian, a new convert to Christianity, then this is the perfect time to accept a sad reality. Much of what is taught from The Churches today is not true. We all must decide whom we shall believe, The Words of Jesus In The Gospel, or what The Clowns In The Pulpits tell us on Sunday Morning.

God Bless You

Pastor Harry

Church of Philadelphia Internet.

I believe that Satan is the author of this Lie of "Hell Is Forever". The Devil knew he could get millions of Fundamentalist "Christians" to accept, love and promote this Sadistic Dogma, just as The Devil gets millions of Fundamemtalist Moslems to believe that "Killing Infidels" (Christians & Jews) is serving God.

Contrary to Christian Dogma such as presented in "Left Behind" books, there are TWO RAPTURES to come and not one. The FIRST RAPTURE happens before The tribulation starts and is for JESUS' true followers, His Faithful Remnant (REV:3:10). The Second Rapture is THE RESURRECTION (1 Thes:4:16- 1 Cor:15:52). This event happens during The Tribulation and represents The LAST CHANCE for all to be saved and attain heaven, as a Tribulation Saint and probably a beheaded martyr. (the hardest way to enter Heaven).

Do I hate Baptists and Moslems? of course not. I hate these Doctrines of "Hell Is Forever", that paint God as a sadistic puppet master or blowing up women & children in the name of "Allah".

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat025.html#top

...

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

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http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev022.html#top

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Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Rev 22:18

Edited October 14, 2006 by ajesuschrist_mathetes

[RustyAngeL]

Just as our eternity with Jesus is forever so is the reality of hell for those who reject his offer of salvation. It is a hard fact to face but if one just thinks on it for a moment then maybe they can see the offer of the escape that Jesus offers.

[Guest Jude 1:3]

Most preachers nowadays don't even believe in hell...or at least, they don't consider it worth preaching about. They also teach repentance isn't necessary for salvation. It is very difficult to find a church which actually believes in the Bible.

[Guest liarsandmartyrs]

Here are several verses that talk about Hell. Jesus talks about this Himself, at least 13 times in the Gospels, so it does exist.

Mat 5:22, Mat 5:29, Mat 5:30, Mat 10:28, Mat 16:18, Mat 18:8, Mat 18:9, Mat 23:15, Mat 23:33, Mat 25:41; Mar 9:43, Mar 9:45, Mar 9:47; Luk 12:5, Luk 16:23, Luk 16:24; Jam 3:6, 2Pe 2:4, Rev 20:14

Edited October 15, 2006 by liarsandmartyrs

[Guest Jude 1:3]

Here are several verses that talk about Hell. Jesus talks about this Himself, at least 13 times in the Gospels, so it does exist.

Mat 5:22, Mat 5:29, Mat 5:30, Mat 10:28, Mat 16:18, Mat 18:8, Mat 18:9, Mat 23:15, Mat 23:33, Mat 25:41; Mar 9:43, Mar 9:45, Mar 9:47; Luk 12:5, Luk 16:23, Luk 16:24; Jam 3:6, 2Pe 2:4, Rev 20:14

Indeed. He spoke of hell more than He spoke of Heaven. Hell is a real place. Anyone who believes otherwise is deceived, as I was once deceived. Such deception can only mean one thing: they're deceived into thinking everyone goes to Heaven, in which case they're probably not saved. On the other hand, hell is a very hard topic and some believers are too weak to accept it. I fully understand this! It took years for me to finally accept the doctrine.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Jude 1:3