Smalcald Posted October 9, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Well I think they are separate issues. Did Jesus tell the Centurion to lay down his weapons of war? No, he said your faith has done it all. But Jesus did promote peace among all human beings. We are a society that has always had guns, particularly those of us who live in rural areas and like to hunt. I don't think banning guns in urban areas will make things less dangerous there, but I am not against removing the illegal guns floating around. I don't see much use for some of these nutty military guns that people think they need etc. But guns do provide a counter-balance to government power. It is difficult to subdue an armed citizenry. Consider Iraq or Afghanistan, most people were armed in those countries, and we cannot put either country down simply with our fire power. So I think we have two good examples of the power of putting guns in the hands of ordinary citizens and also the dangers of that. Christians will come down on both sides of this issue and I think that is fine. Personally when people think of Christians they should think of peaceful people, loving people who will only use violence for self defense in the most extreme circumstances. But Christians should not be known as violent anti-government people; in fact this is the opposite of the mind of Christ. We I think can defend our families but beyond that we must be promoters and practitioners of peace and non-violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted October 9, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2006 One would guess that firearms as such were not available in Jesus' time. It's rather like enquiring as to whether Jesus would ride a donkey or a camel. However, wouldn't the Lord Jesus Christ reach out to PROTECT His Father's property such as The Jewish Temple VS. the "den of thieves"? And, too, are WE not "His Father's property" too? http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewA Posted October 9, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 469 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/21/1967 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Personally when people think of Christians they should think of peaceful people, loving people who will only use violence for self defense in the most extreme circumstances. But Christians should not be known as violent anti-government people; in fact this is the opposite of the mind of Christ. We I think can defend our families but beyond that we must be promoters and practitioners of peace and non-violence. Christians shouldnt be violent at all. The state and law may let you off with a slapped wrist for blowing a strangers brains and guts all over your kitchen floor and walls, But God will not as you have commited murder. There are plenty of non leathal ways to protect your property and family. IF even these fail then call upon God and trust in him to deal with situation. One would guess that firearms as such were not available in Jesus' time. It's rather like enquiring as to whether Jesus would ride a donkey or a camel. However, wouldn't the Lord Jesus Christ reach out to PROTECT His Father's property such as The Jewish Temple VS. the "den of thieves"? And, too, are WE not "His Father's property" too? http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Obviously modern day weapons were not, but he could have still caried a sling which in right hands is just as leathal as gun. then of course there are bow and arrows, spears, swords and daggers. Do we used guns over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfw Posted October 9, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 109 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2006 As far as gun control goes, I always enjoyed that great 20th century philosopher, Archie Bunker, who, in response to the normal careless left-wing thinking of his TV daughter about how many people are killed by guns every year, said "Would it make youse feel bettah, little girl, if they was throwed out of windows?" Somewhere back in the beginning of this thread, there was a question along the lines of "What should Christians do? Should we join boycotts, send letters/emails, join protests?" My answer is "Yes". We need to be involved with getting our voice heard. Otherwise, those pushing or allowing these agendas will think we either don't care or we agree with them. It doesn't mean they will change their minds or their actions, but hopefully it will keep them from running roughshod over the truth. Someone pointed out that Jesus Himself took a violent approach to the money lenders in the Temple. Those who were making the most profit from those money lenders did not appreciate it, but chose to redouble their efforts to destroy Jesus and His message. (Mark 11:18) We may not convince them, we may anger them, but that does not reduce our responsibility to be true. However, I think the Scripture speaks to the most effective way we as individual believers, regardless of our opinions, can impact the culture for its own good: If MY people who are called by My Name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from Heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land2 Chronicles 7:14 Too often, we leave prayer as the last resort. But if we believe that God hears us, and that He has commanded us to pray, and provided a permanent access to His presence through the Blood of Christ, then prayer should be our FIRST resort. The passionate prayer of faith is powerful when predicated on the Will of God and the Word of God. It is OUR responsibility to seek His face, to acknowledge our part in the problem, and to seek His deliverance. Then He will do the work of changing hearts that only He can do. It's been said that every great move of God began when a few believers decided to take Him at His Word and devote themselves to prayer. The great Welsh revival in the UK and the Great Awakening in the US are just 2 in recent history that can be traced to a small group who gave themselves to prayer like Americans give themselves to TV, or to Big Macs. Too often, we are guilty of taking the "Whine and Moan" approach, as if we hope that an annoying tone can accomplish our desires. Let's covenant together to forsake the natural, human response, and choose the supernatural, Godly response of devoted prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenJo5 Posted October 9, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 225 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/11/1960 Share Posted October 9, 2006 If someone is standing in my kitchen threatening to harm my child or anyone who happens to be in my house I don't believe God would expect me to do anything less than whatever it took to defend that innocent person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewA Posted October 9, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 469 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/21/1967 Share Posted October 9, 2006 If someone is standing in my kitchen threatening to harm my child or anyone who happens to be in my house I don't believe God would expect me to do anything less than whatever it took to defend that innocent person. how likley is that situation to happen? Even so, you are still killing someone and commiting murder. Where in the Bible does it say we can do this? If you kill someone and are let off by the Law, you still have to face God over it. What would God say? "Why did you kill that man? I did not say you could. Why did you not seek me out in prayer first? I had plans for that man, if you had prayed for me to intervene then i would have protected you. You could have saved this man had you prayed and talked to him, but now you have condemend his soul to the lake of fire." God is our protector, not a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted October 10, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted October 10, 2006 If someone is standing in my kitchen threatening to harm my child or anyone who happens to be in my house I don't believe God would expect me to do anything less than whatever it took to defend that innocent person. how likley is that situation to happen? Even so, you are still killing someone and commiting murder. Where in the Bible does it say we can do this? If you kill someone and are let off by the Law, you still have to face God over it. What would God say? "Why did you kill that man? I did not say you could. Why did you not seek me out in prayer first? I had plans for that man, if you had prayed for me to intervene then i would have protected you. You could have saved this man had you prayed and talked to him, but now you have condemend his soul to the lake of fire." God is our protector, not a gun. I've got a great rolling pin that will take care of that guy in a jiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 10, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Personally when people think of Christians they should think of peaceful people, loving people who will only use violence for self defense in the most extreme circumstances. But Christians should not be known as violent anti-government people; in fact this is the opposite of the mind of Christ. We I think can defend our families but beyond that we must be promoters and practitioners of peace and non-violence. Christians shouldnt be violent at all. The state and law may let you off with a slapped wrist for blowing a strangers brains and guts all over your kitchen floor and walls, But God will not as you have commited murder. There are plenty of non leathal ways to protect your property and family. IF even these fail then call upon God and trust in him to deal with situation. Of course Christians should not be violent. However Holy Scripture says that those who do not take care of and defend their own families are worse than unbelievers. Defending your family from death or rape is not murder. I guess I could not work and ask God to feed my children and let Him deal with the situation? Maybe that is what you are proposing? We have a responsibility toward our families, and we cannot abrogate that, and scripture calls us not to. But we can also see another benefit to having a population which has access to arms. Consider Europe in the past 100 years. The despots would not have had as easy of time if their populations had been armed; it is a counterbalance to tyranny. Beyond that hunting is something which is part of our culture is what most people actually use their guns for. Guns don't cause the problems we have in the US. What causes our problems is a violent culture which uses violence and sees it as acceptable in settling disputes. We also have a much larger problem with drugs and violent street gangs in the US which causes more gun death's to occur than in many other industrialized countries. If you look at parts of the country where a good portion of the households do own guns, largely in the rural areas, the gun crime rate is actually lower than in other areas. We are not a Christian acting culture or country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewA Posted October 10, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 469 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/21/1967 Share Posted October 10, 2006 However Holy Scripture says that those who do not take care of and defend their own families are worse than unbelievers. Chapter and Verse ? Defending your family from death or rape is not murder. If you kill someone it is. on of the Ten Commandments is.. Thou Shalt Not Kill. I guess I could not work and ask God to feed my children and let Him deal with the situation? Maybe that is what you are proposing? No becuase that would be slothness, going to work is not a sin, but sitting on your backside expecting GOd to provide is. But we can also see another benefit to having a population which has access to arms. Consider Europe in the past 100 years. The despots would not have had as easy of time if their populations had been armed; it is a counterbalance to tyranny. keeping the population armed to prevent tyranny was valid reason immediately after the reveloution, but to continue to use it as an exuse is poor. Do you really think people sit in Governmnt thinking.. "oh im scared to bring in such controls becuase we would have a revolution" How many people do you know who would take to the streets in a revolution and get involved with gun battles with soldiers? would you? Was there a particular occasion in past 100 years in Europe that springs to mind? and example would be nice. Beyond that hunting is something which is part of our culture is what most people actually use their guns for. Guns don't cause the problems we have in the US. What causes our problems is a violent culture which uses violence and sees it as acceptable in settling disputes. We also have a much larger problem with drugs and violent street gangs in the US which causes more gun death's to occur than in many other industrialized countries. If you look at parts of the country where a good portion of the households do own guns, largely in the rural areas, the gun crime rate is actually lower than in other areas. We are not a Christian acting culture or country. SO only allow people of sound mind and free of a criminal record to own guns. A suicidal person or maniac isn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted October 10, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted October 10, 2006 If someone is standing in my kitchen threatening to harm my child or anyone who happens to be in my house I don't believe God would expect me to do anything less than whatever it took to defend that innocent person. how likley is that situation to happen? Even so, you are still killing someone and commiting murder. Where in the Bible does it say we can do this? If you kill someone and are let off by the Law, you still have to face God over it. What would God say? "Why did you kill that man? I did not say you could. Why did you not seek me out in prayer first? I had plans for that man, if you had prayed for me to intervene then i would have protected you. You could have saved this man had you prayed and talked to him, but now you have condemend his soul to the lake of fire." God is our protector, not a gun. I've got a great rolling pin that will take care of that guy in a jiff. Funny I could see that too. I have a few cast iron skillets too. I have a baseball bat by one of the doors and a bb gun by the other. Each of my children sleeps with either a sword/knife or bat beside or under his bed/night table. I don't believe the bible says we can't defend ourselves, though I'm not getting into this again heavily, it's useless. But we have an intruder law here in SC, and if someone comes in here the lack of a gun aint gonna stop us from taking care of the problem. (It would be easier to have a gun, but...while I was raised around guns, my children were not. Part of owning a gun includes some serious training which my children did not receive and therefore I would be taking a chance by having one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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