whatsitmean Posted December 15, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 881 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2002 Groucho Marx sang a little song in the movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest suzie Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 It is how you wish to view it, as with anything whatsitmean. Here is an edited version of Christmas meaning, that I agree and hold to.  In the 7th century a monk from Crediton, Devonshire, went to Germany to teach the Word of God. He did many good works there, and spent much time in Thuringia, an area which was to become the cradle of the Christmas Decoration Industry. Legend has it that he used the triangular shape of the Fir Tree to describe the Holy Trinity of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The converted people began to revere the Fir tree as God's Tree, as they had previously revered the Oak. By the 12th century it was being hung, upside-down, from ceilings at Christmastime in Central Europe, as a symbol of Christianity The first record of the Christmas tree (as we know it) dates back to Riga in Latvia, in 1510. In the last quarter of the 16th century, Martin Luther is said to have decorated a small Christmas Tree with candles, to show his children how the stars twinkled through the dark night. Decorated trees became very popular during the German Yuletide. In the year 1822, protestant minister Clement Clarke Moore, wrote his poem "The Night Before Christmas." Moore wrote the poem for his six children. Moore, stodgy creature of academe that he was, refused to have the poem published despite its enthusiastic reception by everyone who read it. Evidently his argument that it was beneath his dignity fell on deaf ears, because the following Christmas "A Visit from St. Nicholas" found its way into the mass media after all when a family member cunningly submitted it to an out-of-town newspaper. The poem was an "overnight sensation," as we would say today, but Moore was not to acknowledge authorship of it until fifteen years later, when he reluctantly included it in a volume of collected works. He called the poem "a mere trifle." An artist named Thomas Nast drew the first picture of Santa Claus for Harper's Weekly. Santa Claus gained much of his popularity after World War II when the economy and the baby boomers blossomed. Children born between 1945 and 1965 greeted this gift-giving Santa with open arms that have refused to let go, even in adulthood. Although it was never celebrated in the early days of the church, Christmas is celebrated in local churches here in  praise of the fact that God loved us so much, he sent his one and only son to earth. He was entirely God and entirely man. Whereas we have succumbed to the temptations of this earth, Jesus was able to overcome all temptations and live a sinless life. He was then crucified as the perfect sacrifice for our sins. One can not understand why we celebrate the birth of Christ without seeing the other end of His life. He was crucified for our sins and resurrected. So in our culture is "Christmas" a seasonal celebration of winter or a religious celebration honoring the birth of Christ? In truth, in our culture Christmas is a mixture of both with, as any economist will confirm, quite a bit of materialism thrown in. Most holidays (see Easter and Halloween) contain evil, neutral, and good elements as part of their celebration. Christians must discern one from the other and make decisions that glorify God and cause no harm to their personal walk with Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C.D. Light Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I dont think its the "materialism" of christmas that is anti-christian as the icons carried over from the pagan religion as a compromise in the combining of the Dec 25 holiday. And the yule tree was part of the acknowledgement of the pagan icon, and agreed  to by the christian's as a Compromise.  It still remains a fact that the yule tree has nothing to do with the birth of Christ. Yes they are pretty, but so was lucifer. I simply relate this to the catholic religion and incorporating the anti christian rituals and false doctrines along WITH the acknowledgement in some ways, of Jesus.  This is the very thing which nullifies it as a christian church. Obedience is greater than sacrafice. Do we not want to "give up" anything?  (Jesus gave up his life, but we dont wanna give up our trees) cd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest suzie Posted December 27, 2002 Share Posted December 27, 2002 CD- Do you know that the Trinity symbol and concept also has pagan roots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FishMan Posted December 27, 2002 Share Posted December 27, 2002 It's interesting that Christmas is one of the very few topics on this board that people cannot discuss with the support of scripture, because it flat is not in the Bible. No, I am not denying that the birth of Jesus Christ is in the Bible, because it is and I would be a moron to claim that. What I mean is that Christmas AS A HOLIDAY is not in God's word. It is not a commanded holiday, nor a suggested holiday, nor a practice or tradition of the early New Testament church. Even more interesting is that Jesus instituted the bread and the wine (known largely as Communion) which commemorates His broken body and shed blood. Why do so many "Christians" fail to observe these symbols instituted by the Lord Himself? And what about foot washing? Jesus directly told His disciples to observe this practice along with the bread and the wine. I observe foot washing with my local congregation and there is no greater way to understand the humility of Jesus Christ and His sacrificial love than to get down on your knees and wash someone else's feet. You just can't paint God in a corner and say to Him: "Never mind what you think, Lord. We would rather put up this tree, dream up characters like Santa and give gifts to one another rather than commemorate the events you commanded us to." Someone on this post implied that as long as God knows your motives, it's ok. Well, I would add that if your motives are not aligned with the Lord's written word, you have a problem. That's not legalism, that's truth straight from the Bible. I know I will surely get bashed for coming out with all of this, but I truly feel we need to examine the things we do (even well-meaning traditions of men) to see if they fit GOD'S WILL, and not our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest suzie Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 So because there is no mention of Christmas as a holiday, then we are not to celebrate? I believe that most if not all Christians do celebrate communion, and we shared communion with  our church body on Christmas eve...but we also share in the bread and wine throughout the year.  We sang Christmas hymns about the holy birth or our Lord and Savior, and spent a few hours together in praise and worship for God sending His Son in such a wonderful and humble way. The foot washing was a symbolic means of serving one another was it not? We also do this as a body of believers. We are commanded to serve one another in Christ. This also is lived out throughout the year.  During Easter time some churches reenact the footwashing as well as the last supper. We also put up a tree, hung stockings, exchanged gifts, visited our elderly neighbor, had family travel in from near and far.  Never mind what you think Lord? How do you  know what the Lord is thinking about this or any other holiday, in which we do have several throughout the year. Are we not judged by our motives? How are holidays outside of God's Word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted January 2, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 572 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2003 You just can't paint God in a corner and say to Him: "Never mind what you think, Lord. We would rather put up this tree, dream up characters like Santa and give gifts to one another rather than commemorate the events you commanded us to." Sure you could, but I don't think that is a fair analysis of Christians celebrating Christmas. And what about foot washing? Jesus directly told His disciples to observe this practice along with the bread and the wine. I observe foot washing with my local congregation and there is no greater way to understand the humility of Jesus Christ and His sacrificial love than to get down on your knees and wash someone else's feet. Absolutely, but even this can create a sense of false humility. Someone on this post implied that as long as God knows your motives, it's ok. Well, I would add that if your motives are not aligned with the Lord's written word, you have a problem. That's not legalism, that's truth straight from the Bible. Does everything anyone does align with scripture? Is everything anyone does addressed by scripture? The Bible not addressing an issue does not necessitate it being outside of God's will (I don't think). I know I will surely get bashed for coming out with all of this, but I truly feel we need to examine the things we do (even well-meaning traditions of men) to see if they fit GOD'S WILL, and not our own. I don't think you'll be "bashed". Maybe challenged, but certainly not bashed. I agree with you 100% that we should each examine our actions and motives on a daily basis, and allow the Lord room to teach us, and the Holy Ghost to guide us in truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tarrier Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 :thumb: Dear FishMan I will certainly not bash you for the truths you have spoken! Â Amen to all that you wrote. Â This is the first Christmas that we, as a family, have not observed the traditions of men ~ the pagan traditions. Â How free-ing it is. How strengthening to purposely abstain from all appearances of evil. However, it has not been short of hardship and sorrow. Â I fell in the main street, our two dogs died from a snake bite, a gothic man decided he wanted to relieve himself in our front yard, another youth spat on my children while we were in the mall having a drink..... there's more, but I'll spare you. Â Glory to God. Â Thankyou, Jesus, for dying for us all..... Tarrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tarrier Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Something I forgot to add to my post. Â Something that has come to mind since we have endeavoured to turn from this Christmas tradition is that although not denying the birth of Christ, as recorded in the Bible, as being important, but.... isn't it His death which brought about our (eternal) life more so? (once we have accepted His free gift of salvation) . I understand that we fall short of many commandments, but.... surely..... the desire should be to continue to strive and produce fruit? Â The desire should be to live holy and righteously? Â Not keep on saying how much we fail? Â Isn't this a cop-out? Just some thoughts, tarrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwcj Posted January 3, 2003 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 31 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2003 define what you mean "cop-out" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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