Dad Ernie Posted November 6, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Greetings God-man, Yet we know that Adam did not eat of the right tree. How do we "know" this? First let me thank you for your thoughts. But may I give you an alternative explanation? We do not know just how long Adam as in the Garden of Eden. It may have been for some time, and personally I think it was probably 70 years. He had a lot of learning to do - walking and talking with God, and he also had to tend the garden and name all the animals. But during this time, I believe that in order for him to be "sustained", he HAD to eat of the "Tree of Life". But once he sinned he had to be removed from the Garden because: Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: So in order to fulfill God's command - you eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you die, Adam and Eve HAD TO BE removed from the Garden, lest he eat of it and live for ever. You can also look at this from two perspectives - OSAS, and FREE WILL (perserverance) NOSAS. Regarding OSAS: Now one can "assume" that there was some life giving force in the Garden that sustained Adam apart from the Tree of Life, and THEN once he sinned, of course he had to be removed from it lest he eat of it and live. He would only have to eat of it ONCE and he would LIVE FOREVER. Now with FREE WILL, we can see that Adam ate daily of the Tree of Life which sustained him, but once he sinned, he became estranged from God and tried to "cover up" his sins and even blame his sin on his wife. Of course this sin ultimately brought death to him because he was never able to eat of the "Tree of Life" again, being booted out of the Garden. BUT THERE IS YET HOPE. For we know that "It is by grace you are saved through faith" in the Son of God which saves us. The complete revelation of this occurred when God appeared in the person of His Son, and from that point onward, we who eat DAILY of THAT "Tree of Life" inherit eternal life ourselves. When we STOP eating of that tree, we die. Not wishing that any should perish, God may allow many years for repentence, such as he did with Adam, but if we never return to that tree, WE MOST CERTAINLY WILL DIE - even an ETERNAL DEATH. So which is the most likely scenario? Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted November 6, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Eh...I'm not sure about that, DE. If Adam ate of the tree of life daily, that would mean that he already had the divine life. The tree of life was something other than the other trees in the garden. Certainly the other trees in the garden were sufficient to sustain Adam's physical life. Yet the tree of life should indicate to us that he needed more. That he did not eat of the tree of life is evidenced in God's statement, "Lest he put out his hand, and take also of the tree of life..." God would not have had to prevent Adam from eating the tree of life if he had already been eating of it previously. With regard to free will, this is exactly why Adam was given the choice between life and death. Even as God said, "See, I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil....I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live." (Deut. 30:15, 19b). If God had not placed the two trees in the garden Adam would have not had a choice, and free will would have been usurped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted November 6, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Greetings Godman, So you believe in OSAS? If not, you should go back and "carefully" read what I said. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted November 6, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,550 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/15/1943 Share Posted November 6, 2003 "Seeker Of Truth" AP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest glorytothelord Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Hi, Seeker of Truth. In Genesis 2:15 "The Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Seeker Of Truth Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 To the guys talking about Adam and Eve . If Adam and Eve hadn't sinned wouldn't the world have been overcrowded with people a long time ago? I mean considering the fact that they and their desendants would never have died ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted November 6, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 6, 2003 it was not until after the removal from the Garden that the curse of Child Birth was placed on Eve...... but that is a thought.... I am sure God has it all figured out, being that all those that will be with Him, will be quite a few..... and we will be inheriting this earth made new..... so we are still looking at a lot of people... I believe that God can control the rate of birth, rate of death, and control each and everything that we think about, God Is In Control...... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted November 7, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Greetings Godman, So you believe in OSAS? If not, you should go back and "carefully" read what I said. Blessings, Dad Ernie I do believe in OSAS. But I took your reply to be more of a Calvanist/ non-Calvanist argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted November 7, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted November 7, 2003 To the guys talking about Adam and Eve . If Adam and Eve hadn't sinned wouldn't the world have been overcrowded with people a long time ago? I mean considering the fact that they and their desendants would never have died ? I don't know. Sorry but there are some things we just cannot answer. As Mike said above, God is in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted November 7, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Greetings Godman, I do believe in OSAS. But I took your reply to be more of a Calvanist/ non-Calvanist argument. I didn't intend to begin debating OSAS/NOSAS here, but I find it very interesting that everyone I have shared with on this subject can be readily put in one of these two categories depending upon the way they view the Eden story. The story of Eden appears to me to ONLY support the NOSAS argument since Adam and Eve were in an idealic situation where sin should not have arose, yet at the first opportunity (by the temptation of an outside agency - the serpant) they "wanted to be as gods". That sounds just like the nature we have today. AND what happened to them? They fell from grace! We are later told "For your own sin shall you die." Same thing today. We cannot live under the shadow of God's caring wings if we are living to be like the world. Many are going to come to Jesus in the day of judgment and say "I cast out demons and healed people in your Name." but He is going to say to them "Go away, I never knew you." Then we find out in Revelation that God has an eraser for the Book of Life. All these things reveal that OSAS is fiction and people continue to believe in it to their own destruction. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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