BFP Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 732 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 91 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/31/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/24/1969 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Openly Curious - Great post! one more thought - who knows what God has in store for the product of a rape. Who are we to say that the child of a rape is no good. How do we know that the child might not grow up to be one of God's greatest followers and lead may others to Christ. Sometimes the greatest people come from the humblest beginnings:>) BFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted October 30, 2006 God will forgive you for CHOOSING to have an abortion if you repent, just the same as he would forgive you for CHOOSING to Lie, steal, committ adultery, kill, idoltary etc.....SIN IS SIN Precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Now back to our regularly scheduled program! lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I agree that abortion is not a good choice for someone to make, however, we all make bad choices at one time or another. We are to do the best we know to do and repent if we have made a grave mistake. We should try to help others make good decisions when at all possible, and not judge others for faltering. Most people in these types of situations need love and guidance. Sin is sin. We all sin, however people are not spurred into true repentance when sin is called "making a mistake" or making "bad choices." If we truly understood exactly how horrible sin is in God's eyes (even the times we've smarted off to someone or the times we "accidently gossiped") we'd be heartbroken and not patting each other on the back and commiserating. When we 'accidently gossip" or mouth off to someone, which is a sin and condemns a person to hell in and of itself, nobody dies. Abortion is a sin where somebody dies. It's the same thing as going out and shooting your neighbour for hogging your parking space. The idea that we are to "not judge" this is just unconscionable (or however you spell that). When a person comes in for help, yes we are obligated to help them and should help them past the point that they decide to let their baby live. When a person who has had an abortion realises what they have done and repents, then we are to treat them the same as every other sinner who repents of sin. However, it does no good to soft peddle the issue in order to appear less judgemental and more tolerant. What that attitude has caused in the past years is politicians who think that to periodically make a speech and vote for more controls is the measure of being "pro life" when all that is is "not as in favour of abortion as everyone else is." God says murder is murder and the country which tolerates it is in sin and the government which legislates that it is to be protected is illegitimate. Lady Raven I have found your posts very open and well spoken. I find this one very harsh and unlike your other posts. I'm sorry you feel this way, however I'm not in the least bit sorry I worded it that way. See, in most topics in here we're talking about whether it is biblical to homeschool or whether or not our government royally bites. These things are important, however they are not on the same scale of importance as the life of an innocent, helpless baby. You may not feel as strongly as I do, and where I usually would say that I respect your right to disagree, I just don't feel that anyone has the right to disagree on this one. This is not one of the issues I will back down on, and if this post gets pulled I still won't be sorry. Defending and or soft peddling abortion is even worse than defending heresy (and ask Axe how wound up I get about that topic LOL), because even with heresy the chance exists that the victim of the bad doctrine will live another few minutes and thus have the chance to repent. This baby doesn't even have a chance to live. And the victim of that bad doctrine had a say in their own error, the innocent baby has no choice. Killing an innocent human is akin to attacking God as we are made in His image. Killing an innocent baby is the same thing as killing an adult in God's eyes. Like I said abortion is the same thing as shooting your neighbor for stealing your parking space. If countries can split over taxes (like the us revolution and war for southern independence) which is just money, I'd go so far as to say this is an issue worth having a war over. This is NOT something we can soft peddle. Sure, if people repent we are to forgive them, just as I would an axe murderer, mafia don, rapist, extortioner... But until they do repent, we are not to lighten the load for them. They are guilty of murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mareesta Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I agree that abortion is not a good choice for someone to make, however, we all make bad choices at one time or another. We are to do the best we know to do and repent if we have made a grave mistake. We should try to help others make good decisions when at all possible, and not judge others for faltering. Most people in these types of situations need love and guidance. Sin is sin. We all sin, however people are not spurred into true repentance when sin is called "making a mistake" or making "bad choices." If we truly understood exactly how horrible sin is in God's eyes (even the times we've smarted off to someone or the times we "accidently gossiped") we'd be heartbroken and not patting each other on the back and commiserating. When we 'accidently gossip" or mouth off to someone, which is a sin and condemns a person to hell in and of itself, nobody dies. Abortion is a sin where somebody dies. It's the same thing as going out and shooting your neighbour for hogging your parking space. The idea that we are to "not judge" this is just unconscionable (or however you spell that). When a person comes in for help, yes we are obligated to help them and should help them past the point that they decide to let their baby live. When a person who has had an abortion realises what they have done and repents, then we are to treat them the same as every other sinner who repents of sin. However, it does no good to soft peddle the issue in order to appear less judgemental and more tolerant. What that attitude has caused in the past years is politicians who think that to periodically make a speech and vote for more controls is the measure of being "pro life" when all that is is "not as in favour of abortion as everyone else is." God says murder is murder and the country which tolerates it is in sin and the government which legislates that it is to be protected is illegitimate. Lady Raven I have found your posts very open and well spoken. I find this one very harsh and unlike your other posts. I'm sorry you feel this way, however I'm not in the least bit sorry I worded it that way. See, in most topics in here we're talking about whether it is biblical to homeschool or whether or not our government royally bites. These things are important, however they are not on the same scale of importance as the life of an innocent, helpless baby. You may not feel as strongly as I do, and where I usually would say that I respect your right to disagree, I just don't feel that anyone has the right to disagree on this one. This is not one of the issues I will back down on, and if this post gets pulled I still won't be sorry. Defending and or soft peddling abortion is even worse than defending heresy (and ask Axe how wound up I get about that topic LOL), because even with heresy the chance exists that the victim of the bad doctrine will live another few minutes and thus have the chance to repent. This baby doesn't even have a chance to live. And the victim of that bad doctrine had a say in their own error, the innocent baby has no choice. Killing an innocent human is akin to attacking God as we are made in His image. Killing an innocent baby is the same thing as killing an adult in God's eyes. Like I said abortion is the same thing as shooting your neighbor for stealing your parking space. If countries can split over taxes (like the us revolution and war for southern independence) which is just money, I'd go so far as to say this is an issue worth having a war over. This is NOT something we can soft peddle. Sure, if people repent we are to forgive them, just as I would an axe murderer, mafia don, rapist, extortioner... But until they do repent, we are not to lighten the load for them. They are guilty of murder. Whether or not you back down on this or anything is of no consequence to me. Yes, SIN IS SIN. Your SIN, My SIN and the SIN of one who has had an abortion. ALL SIN, ALL THE SAME, SIN IS SIN. As you say, it matters not to God whether it is gossip or abortion, SIN IS SIN. LITTLE SIN, BIG SIN, SIN IS SIN......all the same to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Whether or not you back down on this or anything is of no consequence to me. Yes, SIN IS SIN. Your SIN, My SIN and the SIN of one who has had an abortion. ALL SIN, ALL THE SAME, SIN IS SIN. As you say, it matters not to God whether it is gossip or abortion, SIN IS SIN. LITTLE SIN, BIG SIN, SIN IS SIN......all the same to God. Murder, though is one of those sins that requires death as punishment. Pretty serious to God. All sin gets us a ticket to Hell, but some require pretty hefty consequences here on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giaour Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 179 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,941 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1964 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Genesis 35 16. And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour. 17. And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also. 18. And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin. Rachel died in childbirth with Benjamin. She did not choose to kill the baby in order to save her life. But women will be saved through childbearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mareesta Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Genesis 35 16. And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour. 17. And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also. 18. And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin. Rachel died in childbirth with Benjamin. She did not choose to kill the baby in order to save her life. But women will be saved through childbearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darski Posted October 31, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/19/1948 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Openly Curious - Great post! one more thought - who knows what God has in store for the product of a rape. Who are we to say that the child of a rape is no good. How do we know that the child might not grow up to be one of God's greatest followers and lead may others to Christ. Sometimes the greatest people come from the humblest beginnings:>) BFP James Robison can speak to this issue directly as he is a product of rape. His father continued in his ways of violence and sin and James himself says that it was God alone who saved him (james) from killing his own father. James has a very intense testimony on this issue. God has made great use of James in my way of thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIME Posted November 1, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 120 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 382 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/17/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/08/1964 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Abortion Stops a Beating heart !! Abortion is wrong and is murder. Jeremiah 1:4-5 4 The LORD gave me a message. He said, 5 "I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my spokesman to the world." Psalm 139:13-16 13 You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother's womb. 14 Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is marvelous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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