ayin jade Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2006 Why did He choose the 12 He did instead of choosing other people? They happened to be the best for the mission He had. Yes, it just happens that they were all men, and St. Paul also. The best for the job. Strange that. So why those 12 and not any other? Other men were not chosen either. You are just trying to find something to complain about regarding Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2006 my wife, who is pagan has stated that she is benefitting from my Christianity in the way I treat her. Which doesn't have much to do with the issue of the role of women in the Christian Church. I'm getting really bored of the unbeliving group and the flotsam and jetsom that they keep dredging up here. Is there a way to flag the posts so I don't have to read them to find out if the same cast of characters have nothing better to do then post their rants? If you don't like the unbelievers you could always avoid those few forums in which they are allowed. And that way, we will be spared your ranting against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2006 You know, it just struck me that you are talking about roles. (Thats what I get for typing while eating dinner lol.) Men and women have roles in the church, each to do their part. The roles they have doesnt mean women are lesser than men, it only means they have different roles. I don't think I said anything about women being lesser, although some people could think that different roles may involve unfair discrimination. Anyway, women not being ordained priests, is it in keeping with scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleswings Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 613 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/1959 Share Posted November 3, 2006 God is God and has a divine Order of how things are to be.... if any has a problem they need to take it to God who says if any lacks wisdom, let Him ask... as for as being lesser, no i am not, but do respect Gods order of things He ordained.... for His ways are not our ways nor His thoughts our thoughts, and His Rule will last for eternity.... no matter who does not like it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritman Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,131 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/22/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1962 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Thought this might provide some food for thought. http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/all-re...2339989150.html As far as a Chrisitians home life goes, this article could not be further from the truth. The Bible tells me that I'm to Love my Wife as much as I love my own Body. Our relationship is far better since we became Christians then it was when we weren't. That article doesn't take into account, that God, put the male and female into their prospective postions because without order you would have confusion. in other words there can't be two captains on a ship. Jesus said " A kingdom divided against itself would fall". I'm to Love and Cherish my wife, and listen to what she has to say, and take it into account when I make my decisions. And Because there is a higher authority, Jesus Christ who is the head of the husband, this has a big influence on a man mistreating a woman, we as husbands are accountable to God for our treatment of our wives. And because my wife submits to Christ, she gladly accepts her position, and everything runs in harmony. As far as in the Chruch house, there is still some debate in certain denomonations on whether a woman should hold a position of authority in the Chruch, a Pastor, deacon, ect ect. I for one As long as she preaches the word of God don't have a problem with it. Peace Spiritman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2006 So why those 12 and not any other? Other men were not chosen either. This doesn't really answer the point. If Jesus really wanted women to have an "equal" role in the Christian Church then it is strange that all 12 disciples were men. Jesus wasn't leading by example was he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Do men and women have different roles? Are they different in any way? A church can have different roles and still have equality. These are not the same. Second eve has a point, Christian scripture is relatively clear that men are to be ordained, although it is not necessarily an open and shut case. I think each Christian group should follow what it deems as truth in scripture in this regard. Unfortunately Christian denominations which have ordained women, such as the Church of England, are dying, not because they ordain women, but for the reason they ordained women. In general women are treated with more equality in cultures which have a basis in Christianity, than in any other parts of the world. Obviously there is some impact of the equality in salvation that Christ and Paul spoke of. We don't have any sort of heaven that includes one man having sex with 70 virgins as some sort of ultimate reward. Just that basic idea shows their worldview. But anyway those are just some random thoughts on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2006 ......although some people could think that different roles may involve unfair discrimination. Some people also think that it is unfair that they are punished for eternity for not believing in Jesus. Humanity tends to look at things through myopic eyes. You do not seek the answer to learn about the Lord. You seek a response in order to try and put down our faith. Jesus loves you and offers you eternal life. A life where you can call God Abba Father. Rather than nitpicking on things you personally find objectionable, much like the pharisees of His time, why not seek to know the Lord? Or like the pharisees of His time, does pride get in the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2006 So why those 12 and not any other? Other men were not chosen either. This doesn't really answer the point. If Jesus really wanted women to have an "equal" role in the Christian Church then it is strange that all 12 disciples were men. Jesus wasn't leading by example was he? No, I personally dont think it is strange. I personally dont find that He wasnt leading by example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2006 You do not seek the answer to learn about the Lord. You seek a response in order to try and put down our faith. I am simply pointing out that the 12 disciples and St. Paul were all men. This may be understandable for a 1st century Jewish sect of course. But this piece of evidence at least, could be read as suggestive that women didn't have the same status. I am not saying this is right or wrong. Is this putting down your faith? Not especially. Rather than nitpicking on things you personally find objectionable Where did I say that I found anything "objectionable"? why not seek to know the Lord? Or like the pharisees of His time, does pride get in the way? I don't believe that Christianity is true, and I don't think it is moral. These points are connected -- that it isn't moral is one reason why I think it false. But if I could be persuaded that Christianity is a true and moral belief system then I would become a Christian. And I don't think that "pride" gets in the way, I think the problem is more that there are sound objections to Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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