thepreacher Posted January 22, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 148 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/28/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF CHRISTIANS COULD AGREE. My final conclussions! And yes, please give your thoughts on all these things. One more point. In no way am I saying these works actually save us. God saves us! But these commands still have to be fulfilled in us. 1. First of all we know that repentance is the first thing Jesus taught. Mat 4:17 2. Not only is repentance the first in position but also first as in primary or most important. The term "first principles" in Heb 5:12 in Greek means primary importance. Of coarse this holds true for all 6 things listed in Heb 6:1-2 but repentance not only being listed first but also the first teaching John the Baptist taught and Jesus Christ taught and the apostles. So this agrees with all the other scriptures in this matter. 3. Furthermore Heb 5:12 shows that this foundation is the first "oracles of God" or teaching. So they are God's works not ours. Also notice it is the milk of the word of God, denoting the first thing a person needs as a babe in Christ. That is the whole foundation of coarse not just repentance. Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Again showing it is the "principles" or not only first things needed but also the most important things to understand or a person cannot build any further in the Lord. 4. Heb 6:1 The word "doctrine,KJV" in Greek is "logos" or the image of Christ. This shows how important this foundation is. If we want to be in the IMAGE of Christ, we have to have his foundation. What ever God says is required in this list, He has to see that they are completed in us in order for us to receive salvation. It doesn't matter to me if you believe in free will, predestination or God doing all the work in you himself. The important thing is that all the requirements of God be fulfilled in the end. Mat 7:21-29 and 1Pet 2:1-8 Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine (image) of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. When the writer of Hebrews says "not laying again the foundation" that is because he is speaking to the Hebrews of the church that are already Holy Spirit filled, and have the foundation of Christ. But are starting to fall away forgetting what they have learned and not growing in the Lord. Repentance being a commandment of God. If you read just part of Mat 7:21-29 you will see that these people think they are true believers in Christ. Jesus didn't accept that as true faith. None of their good works or even saying and honestly thinking they believed in Jesus Christ. Why? Because they still didn't do the will of God in Mat 7:21. So HOW were they not doing the will of God? Jesus says in Mat 7:23. They were workers of iniquity. What does this mean? The word "iniquity" in the Greek means law or commandment breaker. BUT! That isn't even the most important part because we all break laws and commandments. The complete term "work iniquity" means that these people not only actually broke the commandments but worked at breaking them multiple or thinking up ways of not needed to do God's laws at all. This also denotes that they would think it was okay to break the laws of God and teach others to break the laws also. They had no idea they were doing wrong and even tried to defend themselves on judgement day. How would they do this and still think calling on the name of Jesus Christ would save them? It was because they did not think the laws or commandments of God were required of them. Actually God the Holy Spirit does the works in us. This then would be denying the works of the Holy Spirit. That is the only sin a person cannot be forgiven. See how important it is! AND I DON'T MEAN THE MOSAIC LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS. What does this have to do with repentance? These people obviously never repented in the first place because they were not showing works proving repentance that God requires. So all the works that looked good to them became "dead works". These works that would not lead them to salvation. 5. How do we know that we know God and are part of his kingdom? 1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. This all means that a person must "repent from dead works" and "show what God says are works showing true repentance" or a person would not receive salvation. Notice also that 1John 2:3 says "if WE keep his commandments". So what does this scripture prove? Be honest. It doesn't say WHY. In other words it doesn't teach free will, predestination or God doing the works in us. It doesn't say that they saved us. It just says if WE see that we have done these commandments, then we can know that we know him. If we don't keep his commandments and still think or feel we know God, then we are just fooling ourselves and maybe some other people and really God considers us a liar. 6. What are the dead works we need to repent of? A. Not believing you have to do the commandments of God, or doing them for (other reasons) than what God says they are designed for, either way. Not repenting from dead works is one commandment. B. Not repenting correctly and doing the works God says are showing true repentance, which are the rest of the foundations to start with. Then showing the fruit of the Holy Spirit. C. Worshiping false gods or religions. This includes practicing things that they teach such as lording it over other children of God. Teaching immorality. Teaching it is okay to learn from false teachers. D. Getting your spiritual understanding from false Christian churches. Understanding that you wouldn't go to another religion to understand Jesus, but Christians do go to many false Christian churches. Or religious leader today or in history, or even our own wisdom. We need to go to the scriptures and God only. E. Not repenting from murders, sorceries, fornication. This means practicing these things and thinking you can still receive salvation while continuing the practice of any sin. F. Not being zealous enough in the Lord Edited January 22, 2007 by thepreacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeCajunboy Posted January 22, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 113 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,430 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/24/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/28/1952 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF CHRISTIANS COULD AGREE. I would like to give a few scriptures on one subject and using JUST those scriptures and their context. Can we come to an agreement with everyone in what God is saying? I will be using the first subject listed in the foundations or the image of or the first teachings of Jesus Christ found in Heb 6:1 (5:11-6:8). The subject we will be using is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepreacher Posted January 22, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 148 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/28/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 ACTS 17:30 (16-34) Cajunboy::: My discernment interprets Matt 7:21 as stating that "Unless the works are being directed by God, you do not collect "Go to Heaven" points for doing things on your own, just because YOU felt it was the right thing to do. Also, not all the "Other gods that Our Lord God is referencing are "Spiritual" gods . He can also be referencing gods as in Power, Money, knowledge that we allow to overtake us in the secular world that may soon get us into trouble because we may tend to put them ahead of God. Let me ask you a question now? Do you think that when we stop listening to God call on our lives and do things our own way, that in essence we are telling God that we don't trust him, or that we think HE is a liar? Because if we fully trust HIM , shouldn't we be following HIS word and HIS plan for us. If you have not found that calling, I suggest you continue your walk with God until you do! Blessings Cajunboy Cajunboy, Cajunboy::: My discernment interprets Matt 7:21 as stating that "Unless the works are being directed by God, you do not collect "Go to Heaven" points for doing things on your own, just because YOU felt it was the right thing to do. thepreacher, Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven True! No points for doing our own works. But in order to do God's will we have to rest from our works and do his works. Or if you prefer, let him do his works in us. John 14:10, 1Cor 15:10 Also, not all the "Other gods that Our Lord God is referencing are "Spiritual" gods . He can also be referencing gods as in Power, Money, knowledge that we allow to overtake us in the secular world that may soon get us into trouble because we may tend to put them ahead of God. Let me ask you a question now? Do you think that when we stop listening to God call on our lives and do things our own way, that in essence we are telling God that we don't trust him, or that we think HE is a liar? Because if we fully trust HIM , shouldn't we be following HIS word and HIS plan for us. If you have not found that calling, I suggest you continue your walk with God until you do! Blessings Cajunboy thepreacher, To try and answer your question. Please let me know if I didn't understand you correctly. Your question implies "stop listening to God" that at one time they listened. If they once listened and followed God, then stopped it would imply to me that they (might) have become reprobate. It depends on how far a person has fallen to determine if they can listen once again. There are both examples in the scriptures. Yes to fully trust in God means we would endeavor to do whatever he says, the way he says to do it, believing in the reasons he says and the results we will receive if we obey. Remember HOW we know that we know and listen and follow God. 1John 2:3-6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepreacher Posted January 26, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 148 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/28/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 Would anyone like to suggest another topic to cover like we have with repentance? Just about any subject would be fine. Faith, baptism, resurrection, how about judgements, or love, maybe anger??? We can see all of what God says about a subject just from what he says! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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