Joshua-777 Posted December 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 Did you browse through Daniel one day and discover this amazing, precise prediction and instantly think of "Alixander" conquering "greese"? This "prophecy" could mean anything. Actualy, with alot of study, and alot of time spent into it, First off, I never said alexander conquered greece, I said he conquered media and persia, Please read the post before you assume, Alexander was the king of greece. It can mean a million things?, well if you look at it, the first king of Greece, Alexander representing the Big horn, after his reign greece separated into 4 kingdoms, that is clear, and this was written before he did, please go back and read danial 8:19-22 he also was known as a great conquer, and conquered media and persia, which before his reign where great conquers, Now, accuracy? I think you just looked at this post, and made an assumption without reading it, thats what it seems like in your post. Yet Christians use as support for Messianic Prophecy that "Jesus rode on a donkey" during the triumphal entry, as predicted. Yes, that sure is beyond the human ability to calculate or manipulate. And how about the prophecy that "the virgin shall be found with child". How could anyone know for certain that Mary was a virgin? (I'm not saying it's true or it isn't. I'm just pointing out that it can't be known that Mary was a virgin.) Some say virgin should simply be translated "young girl" and not necessarily in the way we currently think of virgin. However, there would be nothing remarkable about, "...and behold, a young girl will be pregnant..." Many,many so-called prophecies are incredibly imprecise and vague. Not all have been fulfilled, for example, Jesus was not called "Immanuel" by Mary. The prophecy about the destruction of Tyre is often used to prove the Bible's "remarkable prophecy", but it was not at all fulfilled "100%", as in your criteria of prophecy. So, if it was a partial fulfillment, it is a false prophecy. Do you know the greek, and hebrew of the word emanuel? just wondering? or how deep have you studied that? I'm not going to get into that yet, I will adress it later if you would like/ , , I understand your anger towards God, but please, use respect in your posts, and stick to the prophecies listed, first you need to understand biblical prophecies, and you need to actualy read them, I'm sorry but from your post, you have shown me that you are not willing to look, or take the time to try to understand, Please, have respect. If you are willing to actualy search the truth, and search the prophecies I list, and disprove them, that they did not occure, than you are more than welcome to do so, but if all you have to say is ramblings, and anger towards the Bible, please don't post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live4Eternity Posted December 11, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 72 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2006 (edited) almah (Hebrew); parthenos (Greek) these are the Hebrew and Greek words for virgin... but check this out... The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 is almah. The key that we believe (those of us who know the Bible to be Old Testament as well as New Testament) is that in Greek, the word parthenos does not have the variety of interpretation that almah does. Parthenos always means Edited December 11, 2006 by Live4Eternity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted December 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Josh, great job so far. Two things, though...... Alexander is spelled with an "e" and Greece is spelled with a "c". Emeraldgirl used those mispellings as a means to poke at you. Some people can't look past that stuff and will use it to discredit your arguments. Take your time, my friend. If you give them an inch, they will certainly break that inch down to silly little points in an attempt to distract from the message. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted December 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 Josh, great job so far. Two things, though...... Alexander is spelled with an "e" and Greece is spelled with a "c". Emeraldgirl used those mispellings as a means to poke at you. Some people can't look past that stuff and will use it to discredit your arguments. Take your time, my friend. If you give them an inch, they will certainly break that inch down to silly little points in an attempt to distract from the message. t. Thanks I fixed the spelling on it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted December 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 And emeraldgirl, I think you should re-read this part, because the part you mentioned you said could mean anything, this is the part where the bible explains what it means. danial 8:19-22 19 And he said, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeraldgirl Posted December 11, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 179 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/08/1971 Share Posted December 11, 2006 instantly think of "Alixander" conquering "greese"? I'm sorry I misquoted this. I was annoyed that someone trying to speak authoritatively on fulfilled prophecy would spell Alexander the Great and Greece like this. Alexander representing the Big horn This was the point I was making. The verses which you are quoting are a metaphoric riddle. It could be interpreted to mean a lot of different things, depending on what someone wants to see in it. Which would be against the criteria that you yourself quoted as criteria by which to judge a prophecy. On the face of it, no one without a great deal of knowledge of history could even draw these conclusions in the first place. I think you just looked at this post, and made an assumption without reading it, thats what it seems like in your post. I didn't read it as thoroughly as I could have. You are right about that. The "fulfilled prophecy" argument is one of the bigger disappointments for me. When I first started reading about them, I was excited to see what they would say. So, when I saw what all these supposed many prophecies really were, it was a big let-down. Do you know the greek, and hebrew of the word emanuel? just wondering? or how deep have you studied that? I'm not going to get into that yet, I will adress it later if you would like/ No. And not deeply. I just know that in Isaiah it says that the Messiah will be called "Immanuel" which means "God with us". But in the NT, the angel tells Joseph to name him "Jesus", because he will save his people from their sins. and you need to actualy read them, I'm sorry but from your post, you have shown me that you are not willing to look, or take the time to try to understand, Please, have respect. If you are willing to actualy search the truth, and search the prophecies I list, and disprove them, that they did not occure, I have read many of them. Prophecy, IME, is one of the more tedious things to debate about. I'm not willing to spend hours fact-checking and finding Bible quotes. I already spent many hours doing that when I was considering it for my own beliefs. In my PP, I was trying to show you that by the criteria you quoted, there are problems right away, with just a few that I can list off the top of my head, and the one you put up in your post. The Bible does not name Alexander the Great, nor does it name Mede-Persia. All these metaphors about rams and horns make for a very weak prophecy and totally baffling reading. (That's why I've always hated Ezekiel and Revelations, but I digress.) *I* couldn't possibly self-verify a prophecy like the Daniel 8 one you quoted. The only way I might be able to "prove" it is to read what some scholar thinks it means and decide his argument sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeraldgirl Posted December 11, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 179 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/08/1971 Share Posted December 11, 2006 And emeraldgirl, I think you should re-read this part, because the part you mentioned you said could mean anything, this is the part where the bible explains what it means. danial 8:19-22 19 And he said, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted December 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 This was the point I was making. The verses which you are quoting are a metaphoric riddle. It could be interpreted to mean a lot of different things, depending on what someone wants to see in it. Which would be against the criteria that you yourself quoted as criteria by which to judge a prophecy. On the face of it, no one without a great deal of knowledge of history could even draw these conclusions in the first place. Actualy this is the main part I was getting at, it mentions in danial 8:20 that the ram is media and persia, and it mentions the the male goat is the kingdom of Greece, and it mentions the large horn is the first king, and it says that 4 kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, now, Alixander was the king of Greece who did defeat media persia, and at the end of his reign Greece separated into 4 kingdoms. danial 8:19-22 19 And he said, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted December 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 And emeraldgirl, I think you should re-read this part, because the part you mentioned you said could mean anything, this is the part where the bible explains what it means. danial 8:19-22 19 And he said, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeraldgirl Posted December 11, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 179 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/08/1971 Share Posted December 11, 2006 lol Hey Thanks for your posts, lol haha I just wrote a topic answering this in your last post, lol hahaha but anyways. so now do you feel this makes a valid prophecy? I'm sorry about that...you were right I was too quick to disregard what you wrote. It may make it more valid. I don't know; I don't want to study it. I don't believe the Bible, so even if it makes it more clear, it won't change my whole view of the Bible. The prophecies I did already take the time to fact-check and plow through were so disappointing in most cases. So... possibly I have nothing worthwhile to add and should not have involved myself in this thread to begin with. P.S. I read your profile. Very inspiring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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