kenod Posted December 29, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/12/1945 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 When I asked the question in post #1, I was not thinking about speaking in tongues, just what it means to "receive" the Holy Spirit. It seems clear that the Samaritans did not receive the Holy Spirit when they believed. It seems clear that Paul did not receive the Holy Spirit when he believed. Jesus appeared to him personally so I would say he believed from that moment. After all, he knew a lot about "the Way", and He'd heard an excellent sermon from Stephen. As for the disciples in Ephesus, we have to assume that they had not heard about Jesus, although they were believers, and therefore had not received the Holy Spirit. Personally, I do not feel comfortable with that interpretation. My own experience was something similar to the Ephesian disciples. I became a Christian in a Baptist church and so I did not know about receiving the Holy Spirit. Later, when I learned more about the Holy Spirit, hands were laid on me, and I received. My conclusion is that some people do receive the Holy Spirit when they believe, and some do not. It is something that each individual must seek out for him/herself, and be very sure of their experience. After all, if the "oil" in the parable of the 10 virgins does represent the Holy Spirit, it may mean the difference between going into the "marriage" and being left behind. As for speaking in tongues, I do believe in that, but I do not consider it to be the infallible evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. We should never deny anything that is Scriptural, and tongues is Scriptural, although the way it is practiced in some churches may not be. "When He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted December 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted December 30, 2006 We need to be conitnually filled! Amen! And filling does not imply that we have less of the Holy Spirit at times than others. We always have all of Him. Filling implies the amount of our lives that are yielded to Him. We can be said to be filled, when our lives are completely yielded to His influence. Yes, many times it is recorded in scripture that the disciples were filled, filled and more filled. That is what we need to be. Always being filled! It is often said by the "healing preachers" that some who are not healed lack enough faith to be healed. Such talk is absolute nonsense of course. When the Spirit fills you with His life, He fills you with His life. The difference is only in the degree to which you are willing to allow the Lord to permeate your soul. A christian does not fail to receive healing because of lack of faith. Every Christian has the measue of faith. Christians fail to receive healing because of abundance of doubt. Pure faith, without doubt, will give results. Hearing the word of God drives out doubt. Christians fail to receive healing because God works in His own due time, according to His will. The problem is that Christians refuse to submit absolutely to Him; and attribute illness to the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted December 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted December 30, 2006 THe WORD says that not all gifts is for everybody, but gifts are there to help the community what is you rtake on this?? There is no "A gift of tongues." There are "gifts of tongues." Why so many people get confused is they do not understand it. The prayer language is not a gift, it is an entitlement to any Christian. There are two "gifts." The first is speaking in a language that anyone present can understand. The second is speaking a message in assembly to be interpreted; this is equal to prophecy. If you try to lump all theree into one gift, you get a huge theological mess. Excellent! One is a Grace gift (prayer language)and the other is a Ministry gift, and is accompanied by another gift called Interpretation. So many people lump them together, but they have totally different functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted December 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 30, 2006 THe WORD says that not all gifts is for everybody, but gifts are there to help the community what is you rtake on this?? the Gifts of the Spirit are given by the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit sees fit..... they are for Edification, they are for Exhaltaion, they are for Comfort, Training and correction...... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live4Eternity Posted December 30, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 72 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 30, 2006 1. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the placing of the Christian into the Body of Christ and into Jesus Himself: For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13 CSB 2. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a one-time event that occurs at the moment of salvation - Notice Paul, in 1 Corinthians 12:13, does not say "some of you were baptized in the Spirit and some were not". He says all were (past tense). 3. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a univeral experience for all believers ... for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Galatians 3:26-27 CSB There is no place in scripture where believers are commanded to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit. All passages that speak to the issue assume it to have already been experienced. Much of the confusion regarding the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is our failure to distinguish between the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and filling by the Holy Spirit, which is a command and happens as we yield to the Holy Spirit's influence. Many will point to events in the book of Acts where believers in Jesus received the Holy Spirit at a later date than what appears to be their salvation. 1. 10 days after Jesus ascended into heaven 120 believers were gathered together in the upper room praying. All of them received the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues (Acts 2:1-4) 2. Later in the day (Acts 2:38ff), Peter was explaining the phenomena to a much larger crowd. He referred to the situation as "the gift of the Holy Spirit". He told them that they sould repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Spirit. 3000 were saved. yet these 3000 do not seem to have had the same experience as the 120 (there was no rusing of wind, toungues of fire etc.) The difference seems to be that the 120 were already believers in Jesus. They recieved the Holy Spirit months after they began to follow Jesus. The 300 received salvation and the Holy Spirit at the same time. The experience of the 120 was different because of the unique period in history that it occured. The 120 believed in Jesus while He was still on the earth. They could not have received the Holy Spirit, because as John tells us: He said this about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were going to receive, for the Spirit had not yet been received, because Jesus had not yet been glorified. John 7:39 CSB For these 120 people who had follwed Jesus, there was no possibility of their receiving the Holy Spirit at the time they came to believe in Jesus. The Spirit had not been given at that point. 3. In Acts 8:5-17 Phillip preaches in Samaria and many came to faith and were baptized. When the apostles heard about this they sent Peter and John to verify the experience. The main reason for this is that up until now Jews had no dealings with Samaritans. There was a feud that had existed for hundreds of years. It is possible thet God withheld the giving of the Holy Spirit until the apostles arrived, so that the natural mistrust of the Samaritans would be overcome before 2 leading apostles, and validated by the giving of the Holy Spirit. 4. In Acts 19:1-7, 12 men who Paul met seem to be believers. They were disciples, but Paul dug deeper and found that they had really been followers of John the Baptist. Paul asks them if they received the Holy Spirit when they believed. The men replied that they had no idea what Paul was talking about. Paul even had to explain to them that the one whom John said was coming was Jesus. Can anyone who does not know there is a Holy Spirit, and needs to be told that the Messiah was Jesus, really been saved? It is obvious that these disciples were followers of John, who had been baptized by him. They had not however come to understand who the messiah was, and what was required. The bottom line is that we do not get God on an installment plan. God is not 3 Gods. When we receive Jesus, we receive the entire God-head, not part of it. I would have to say that this was the best response to the entire thread. What a response. This is the correct Biblical answer. Way to go! God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted December 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I see a lot of people talking about this "prayer language" that I can't find any reference to in the scriptures...are you referring to the way the Holy Spirit intercedes for us "with groans that words cannot express?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted December 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted December 30, 2006 We need to be conitnually filled! Amen! And filling does not imply that we have less of the Holy Spirit at times than others. We always have all of Him. Filling implies the amount of our lives that are yielded to Him. We can be said to be filled, when our lives are completely yielded to His influence. Yes, many times it is recorded in scripture that the disciples were filled, filled and more filled. That is what we need to be. Always being filled! It is often said by the "healing preachers" that some who are not healed lack enough faith to be healed. Such talk is absolute nonsense of course. When the Spirit fills you with His life, He fills you with His life. The difference is only in the degree to which you are willing to allow the Lord to permeate your soul. A christian does not fail to receive healing because of lack of faith. Every Christian has the measue of faith. Christians fail to receive healing because of abundance of doubt. Pure faith, without doubt, will give results. Hearing the word of God drives out doubt. Christians fail to receive healing because God works in His own due time, according to His will. The problem is that Christians refuse to submit absolutely to Him; and attribute illness to the enemy. God's will is that His people be in health and prosper, just as our soul prospers. Jesus was beaten to redeem us from sickness. God's will is healing, the problem is Christians doubt His will and His power. Sickness is of the Enemy. Sickness is not from God. Sickness can not be from God. Jesus went about doing good and healing all who were sick. Jesus said a kingdom divided against itsself can not stand. If God made people sick and Jesus heled them, the the kingdom of God would be divided and incapable of standing. The only other possibility would be Jesus lied or did not know what He was saying. I will lean toward sickness is from Satan. Notice, no sickness was in the Earth until Adam sinned and Satan got the rghts to unleash the curse on the Earth. Jesus taught us to pray "Thy will be done on Earth, as it is in Heaven." There is no sickness in Heaven, guess Gods will is health. I do not recall anywhere in the New Testament Jesus going around and making people sick to teach them something, maybe I just overlooked it. Amen! So goooood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asap Posted December 30, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 95 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/20/1961 Share Posted December 30, 2006 We need to be conitnually filled! Amen! And filling does not imply that we have less of the Holy Spirit at times than others. We always have all of Him. Filling implies the amount of our lives that are yielded to Him. We can be said to be filled, when our lives are completely yielded to His influence. Yes, many times it is recorded in scripture that the disciples were filled, filled and more filled. That is what we need to be. Always being filled! It is often said by the "healing preachers" that some who are not healed lack enough faith to be healed. Such talk is absolute nonsense of course. When the Spirit fills you with His life, He fills you with His life. The difference is only in the degree to which you are willing to allow the Lord to permeate your soul. A christian does not fail to receive healing because of lack of faith. Every Christian has the measue of faith. Christians fail to receive healing because of abundance of doubt. Pure faith, without doubt, will give results. Hearing the word of God drives out doubt. Christians fail to receive healing because God works in His own due time, according to His will. The problem is that Christians refuse to submit absolutely to Him; and attribute illness to the enemy. God's will is that His people be in health and prosper, just as our soul prospers. Jesus was beaten to redeem us from sickness. God's will is healing, the problem is Christians doubt His will and His power. Sickness is of the Enemy. Sickness is not from God. Sickness can not be from God. Jesus went about doing good and healing all who were sick. Jesus said a kingdom divided against itsself can not stand. If God made people sick and Jesus heled them, the the kingdom of God would be divided and incapable of standing. The only other possibility would be Jesus lied or did not know what He was saying. I will lean toward sickness is from Satan. Notice, no sickness was in the Earth until Adam sinned and Satan got the rghts to unleash the curse on the Earth. Jesus taught us to pray "Thy will be done on Earth, as it is in Heaven." There is no sickness in Heaven, guess Gods will is health. I do not recall anywhere in the New Testament Jesus going around and making people sick to teach them something, maybe I just overlooked it. The night before I was healed God woke me up with that exact scripture 3 john 2. I pressed in and stood on the fact that I was healed for months before it all came about. The next morning when I rose He asked me to give up something and I knew that once I finally gave it to Him that my healing would be completed. 4 hours later, with oil and hands laid on me, prayer was offered and my healing happened. That was 10 months ago. Three years after I accepted Christ and turned away from my sinful life. 2 1/2 years after being water baptized. I have been studying and praying alot and when I was fasting this last june I came across scripture about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and asked God, "Lord can I have that, I want all that you have for me." this was not in a church service, it was in my home in my alone with God time. I was immediately hit with a power that almost knocked me down. I sat on the floor and spoke in a foriegn tongue for about an hour. This is my testimony on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzav_LaTzav Posted December 30, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 32 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 30, 2006 (edited) Boy, did I make my exit quickly before he could work his magic! clear error on that leaders part. Amein! The above was actually written by me, under a name I will no longer use. I have a question: What would you expect, had this guy "work[ed] his magic"? I have no clue!! Edited December 30, 2006 by Tzav_LaTzav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted December 30, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/12/1945 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 The night before I was healed God woke me up with that exact scripture 3 john 2. I pressed in and stood on the fact that I was healed for months before it all came about. The next morning when I rose He asked me to give up something and I knew that once I finally gave it to Him that my healing would be completed. 4 hours later, with oil and hands laid on me, prayer was offered and my healing happened. That was 10 months ago. Three years after I accepted Christ and turned away from my sinful life. 2 1/2 years after being water baptized. I have been studying and praying alot and when I was fasting this last june I came across scripture about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and asked God, "Lord can I have that, I want all that you have for me." this was not in a church service, it was in my home in my alone with God time. I was immediately hit with a power that almost knocked me down. I sat on the floor and spoke in a foriegn tongue for about an hour. This is my testimony on this subject. Thank you, asap, I really enjoyed reading your testimony, it was a real blessing, and I think helpful for others wanting to receive the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that experience alone should be the basis for interrpeting the Bible, but certainly experience of healing and receiving the Holy Spirit by those who have genuine testimonies ought to be considered by everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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