Immanency of Christ's Return?

[Christ's Free Servant]

I don't generally get into debates about when Christ will return. I've always kind of just left that up to the Lord when he wants to come back, though I must admit I lean heavily on the post-trib side of the coin. (I would not be disappointed if I was wrong, though.) But, in a recent conversation with someone, the subject of the immanency of Christ's return came into question, so this is my question:

If, throughout church history, Christ could have come back at any time, then would that not have obliterated all of the scriptures having to do with the signs of his return whether you are pre, mid or post-trib in your views? I mean, even if you are pre-trib, you still you believe there are "seven years" that follow the rapture, so there has to have been certain prophecies fulfilled leading up even to the rapture, would there not be?

I frequent the "Rapture Ready" site because I like to read their news, but even though they are pre-trib, they are still charting the signs of the Lord's return.

I mean, I read about the second coming of Christ in the Bible, and there are very clear signs of what must take place before he comes back. I understand that from a pre-trib viewpoint that a lot of those will take place during the tribulation and that the pre-trib view says that Christ returns, essentially, in two stages - one to get his bride and one to get the believers that survived the tribulation and then to destroy the earth, right? But, still, would not the doctrine of Immanency obliterate the need for certain prophecies to be fulfilled even prior to the rapture?

I mean, could Christ have returned at any point in church history? And, if so, what about all the prophecies of scripture that tell us what must be in place before his return?

[Pilgrim7]

Sue,

Jesus can't return until all things have been fulfilled. All through History, Beleivers were supposed to live as though Christ could return at any moment, to expect Him, to hunger and thirst for His appearing, but He could not have returned because all things were not fulfilled. In Acts Peter tells us this:

Acts 3:19 Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (2nd coming)

Ac 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Ac 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive (retain, hold) until the times of restitution (restoration) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

So Jesus couldn't have returned then. Yet God wanted each gerneration to expect Jesus return for it would aid them in living the way God wanted them to live. It is that hope that kept them going.

After writing first Thessalonians, the people thought that Jesus was coming in their day, and so Paul wrote His 2nd letter to them telling them of the 'falling away' that had to happen first.

2th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (2nd coming)

2:2 That yoube not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2:5 Remember not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

God Bless,

Dennis

[Christ's Free Servant]

Sue,

Jesus can't return until all things have been fulfilled. All through History, Beleivers were supposed to live as though Christ could return at any moment, to expect Him, to hunger and thirst for His appearing, but He could not have returned because all things were not fulfilled. In Acts Peter tells us this:

Acts 3:19 Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (2nd coming)

Ac 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Ac 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive (retain, hold) until the times of restitution (restoration) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

So Jesus couldn't have returned then. Yet God wanted each gerneration to expect Jesus return for it would aid them in living the way God wanted them to live. It is that hope that kept them going.

After writing first Thessalonians, the people thought that Jesus was coming in their day, and so Paul wrote His 2nd letter to them telling them of the 'falling away' that had to happen first.

2th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (2nd coming)

2:2 That yoube not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2:5 Remember not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

God Bless,

Dennis

Thank you! That is what I believe, too, but wanted to hear some other thoughts on the subject just in case I was missing something. I do appreciate your response, and I agree!

[Adarian]

I take this position as well. We will know the face of the antichrist and we ( the church upon the earth at the time ) will have to go through the great tribulation.

Even so, being ready for the return of Christ is being ready to meet our appointment with death. For most of us, our individual time to meet up with the Lord will not coincide with His return for His church.

[Christ's Free Servant]

I take this position as well. We will know the face of the antichrist and we ( the church upon the earth at the time ) will have to go through the great tribulation.

Even so, being ready for the return of Christ is being ready to meet our appointment with death. For most of us, our individual time to meet up with the Lord will not coincide with His return for His church.

I agree. I believe that, too. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[stafy]

I don't generally get into debates about when Christ will return. I've always kind of just left that up to the Lord when he wants to come back, though I must admit I lean heavily on the post-trib side of the coin. (I would not be disappointed if I was wrong, though.) But, in a recent conversation with someone, the subject of the immanency of Christ's return came into question, so this is my question:

If, throughout church history, Christ could have come back at any time, then would that not have obliterated all of the scriptures having to do with the signs of his return whether you are pre, mid or post-trib in your views? I mean, even if you are pre-trib, you still you believe there are "seven years" that follow the rapture, so there has to have been certain prophecies fulfilled leading up even to the rapture, would there not be?

I frequent the "Rapture Ready" site because I like to read their news, but even though they are pre-trib, they are still charting the signs of the Lord's return.

I mean, I read about the second coming of Christ in the Bible, and there are very clear signs of what must take place before he comes back. I understand that from a pre-trib viewpoint that a lot of those will take place during the tribulation and that the pre-trib view says that Christ returns, essentially, in two stages - one to get his bride and one to get the believers that survived the tribulation and then to destroy the earth, right? But, still, would not the doctrine of Immanency obliterate the need for certain prophecies to be fulfilled even prior to the rapture?

I mean, could Christ have returned at any point in church history? And, if so, what about all the prophecies of scripture that tell us what must be in place before his return?

I take this position, to focus on the trib, is to take your eyes of him. So who cares when he returns, if you keep your eyes on him you want miss his coming.