systemstrike_7 Posted January 11, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Share Posted January 11, 2007 As I was explaining my situation in another thread, a question rose up that I had asked my preacher. The question is as follows: What about the people in the African jungle(or another isolated location) who have never heard the name of Christ, much less read a bible? Do they go directly to hell just because they were never given a chance to learn about this salvation? Well this was answered quite well by Nebula. The answer was this... Romans 2 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. This shows that God has a different plan for those who have not heard the name of Christ and never will before they die. But this also brings up another issue: Is Jesus Christ the only way to the Father? Jesus states: John 14:6 Jesus said to him[Thomas], "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." So was Jesus only stating a partial truth? Can it be reconciled as both being truth? Please give me your thoughts. In love, system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted January 11, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Scripture says it, just as you quoted. Jesus is the only way. He said it Himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemstrike_7 Posted January 11, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Scripture says it, just as you quoted. Jesus is the only way. He said it Himself. Yes, but you are neglecting the other scripture I quoted. If we are interpreting this correctly, it says what it says. That those who haven't heard the name of Christ will be judged by a DIFFERENT standard according to their hearts. And that doesn't really answer the question about the tribal folk that have never heard his name. Do they really go to hell just because they were never given a chance to take part in this salvation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted January 11, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Please read Romas 1:20. Basically it says that God reveles Himself through nature and that they shall be without excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemstrike_7 Posted January 11, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Please read Romas 1:20. Basically it says that God reveles Himself through nature and that they shall be without excuse. Woah. Either I've just had a revelation or a major brain fart. If we are all judged by the same standards AND God can reveal himself through nature, then wouldn't faith in a very fundamental, nonspecific (even non-Christian) view of God be acceptable for salvation? Let me explain. If God can reveal himself through nature to a tribe of Africans, he can reveal his essence, but there's no way he can reveal his trinitarian nature, his maleness, his connection with Jesus, etc. Right? I mean, how could he reveal such specific details through nature alone? If he can't, but these unwitting tribesman can still be saved, then presumably just having faith in his essence would suffice. If it does, and we are all judged by the same standards, then someone--anyone--who believes in the basic, essential view of God will be saved. Even non-Christians, since this essence cannot specifically contain the Christian concepts of Jesus and the Trinity. I'm sure you guys are gonna make me regret posting this, but based on what you've said so far it makes perfect sense. Wow, good point. That does make sense. This needs to be answered, and answered well. By the way, brain farts aren't always a bad thing. They sometimes save my life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted January 11, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Please read Romas 1:20. Basically it says that God reveles Himself through nature and that they shall be without excuse. Woah. Either I've just had a revelation or a major brain fart. If we are all judged by the same standards AND God can reveal himself through nature, then wouldn't faith in a very fundamental, nonspecific (even non-Christian) view of God be acceptable for salvation? Let me explain. If God can reveal himself through nature to a tribe of Africans, he can reveal his essence, but there's no way he can reveal his trinitarian nature, his maleness, his connection with Jesus, etc. Right? I mean, how could he reveal such specific details through nature alone? If he can't, but these unwitting tribesman can still be saved, then presumably just having faith in his essence would suffice. If it does, and we are all judged by the same standards, then someone--anyone--who believes in the basic, essential view of God will be saved. Even non-Christians, since this essence cannot specifically contain the Christian concepts of Jesus and the Trinity. I'm sure you guys are gonna make me regret posting this, but based on what you've said so far it makes perfect sense. This is what my Bible says I have the Amplified Verison, Romans 1:20 FOR EVER SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD HIS INVISIBLE NATURE AND ATTRIBUTES THAT IS, HIS ETERNAL POWER AND DIVINITY HAVE BEEN MADE INTELLIGIBLE AND CLEARLY DISCERNIBLE IN AND THROUGH THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE. (HIS HANDYWORKS) SO (MEN) ARE WITHOUT EXECUSE. (ALTOGETHERWITHOUT ANY DEFENSE OR JUSTIFICATION. PSALMS 19:1-4 Backs this scripture up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Sounds like somebody's been listening to Oprah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted January 11, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Sounds like somebody's been listening to Oprah. I'm not sure what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemstrike_7 Posted January 11, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Please read Romas 1:20. Basically it says that God reveles Himself through nature and that they shall be without excuse. Woah. Either I've just had a revelation or a major brain fart. If we are all judged by the same standards AND God can reveal himself through nature, then wouldn't faith in a very fundamental, nonspecific (even non-Christian) view of God be acceptable for salvation? Let me explain. If God can reveal himself through nature to a tribe of Africans, he can reveal his essence, but there's no way he can reveal his trinitarian nature, his maleness, his connection with Jesus, etc. Right? I mean, how could he reveal such specific details through nature alone? If he can't, but these unwitting tribesman can still be saved, then presumably just having faith in his essence would suffice. If it does, and we are all judged by the same standards, then someone--anyone--who believes in the basic, essential view of God will be saved. Even non-Christians, since this essence cannot specifically contain the Christian concepts of Jesus and the Trinity. I'm sure you guys are gonna make me regret posting this, but based on what you've said so far it makes perfect sense. This is what my Bible says I have the Amplified Verison, Romans 1:20 FOR EVER SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD HIS INVISIBLE NATURE AND ATTRIBUTES THAT IS, HIS ETERNAL POWER AND DIVINITY HAVE BEEN MADE INTELLIGIBLE AND CLEARLY DISCERNIBLE IN AND THROUGH THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE. (HIS HANDYWORKS) SO (MEN) ARE WITHOUT EXECUSE. (ALTOGETHERWITHOUT ANY DEFENSE OR JUSTIFICATION. PSALMS 19:1-4 Backs this scripture up. This does not answer the question of whether or not Jesus is the one and only way. You are supporting the side that God judges us on different standards other than Jesus. Does that mean Jesus is telling us only a partial truth? That He isn't the one and only way? I'm not taking sides, just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemstrike_7 Posted January 11, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Sounds like somebody's been listening to Oprah. I'm not sure what you mean. Ya me neither... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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