Zceiv Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 482 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1991 Share Posted January 13, 2007 this is were you get into the doctrine of irresistible grace and unconditional election in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.01 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Did you read my response to that question with Romans 1:20 or are you going to ingore that too. Go back to my response with the scripture. I'm not going to type it out again. My patience is running thin with you. I read it, and if I skipped over some other answer please forgive me. With that said, are you saying that Jesus is not the only way? Maybe I don't quite understand this passage. If God reveals himself through nature, and they find God through nature, does that give them a chance to salvation through something(e.g. nature) other than Christ? As we have seen in many ancient cultures such as the native americans and early mexican cultures such as the aztecs, these tribes look at nature and come up with a god for just about every tree and creek. They make sun gods and earth goddesses and many other gods. They don't know any better!! They have never had the Word given to them!! I hear that God's word is so important and that we can only understand God through the bible, but they don't have a bible! They will most likely come up with their own theology. Now, Paul also states that concerning those without the law, God will weigh their hearts and judge them accordingly. At least this is how I interpreted the passage. God will always make Himself known to man, souls are too important to Him not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemstrike_7 Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 this is were you get into the doctrine of irresistible grace and unconditional election in my opinion This sounds interesting please explain further.... Ok, angel, but do you believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven? Or does God reveal himself in other ways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zceiv Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 482 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1991 Share Posted January 13, 2007 this is were you get into the doctrine of irresistible grace and unconditional election in my opinion This sounds interesting please explain further.... Ok, angel, but do you believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven? Or does God reveal himself in other ways? here is a simple version "(The simplistic version) T -- total depravity. This doesn't mean people are as bad as they can be. It means that sin is in every part of one's being, including the mind and will, so that a man cannot save himself. U -- unconditional election. God chooses to save people unconditionally; that is, they are not chosen on the basis of their own merit. L -- limited atonement. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was for the purpose of saving the elect. I -- irresistible grace. When God has chosen to save someone, He will. P -- perseverence of the saints. Those people God chooses cannot lose their salvation; they will continue to believe. If they fall away, it will be only for a time. " - http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.html just look up some topic on this subject and ull find loads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2007 "If God reveals himself through nature, and they find God through nature, does that give them a chance to salvation through something(e.g. nature) other than Christ?" systemstrike You are forgetting on important factor systemstrike- the triune nature of God. Jesus is part of that Jesus is God.as is the Holy Spirit who reveals God . love your sister in Christ, Rebekah David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemstrike_7 Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 That is very interesting, but I cannot find where that is relevent here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemstrike_7 Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 "If God reveals himself through nature, and they find God through nature, does that give them a chance to salvation through something(e.g. nature) other than Christ?" systemstrike You are forgetting on important factor systemstrike- the triune nature of God. Jesus is part of that Jesus is God.as is the Holy Spirit who reveals God . love your sister in Christ, Rebekah David Ok very good point. Does this mean that when these cultures invent a god named after the sun, or a goddess of the earth that God has been revealed to them? And what about the bible? You ask any Christian and they will tell you that reading the bible is of the utmost importance when being saved. I've even heard some tell me that you MUST have access to the bible to be saved. That you MUST know what life Jesus lived. And that you MUST proclaim that Jesus is the son of God and rose from the dead. How are they going to know this simply by nature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zceiv Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 482 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1991 Share Posted January 13, 2007 some calvinist i know would say it wouldnt matter if they lived isolated because they would respond the same way even if they lived in a big city unless God draws them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2007 If God reveals Himself then He is revealing all of Him ( that includes Jesus) love your sister in Christ, Rebekah David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemstrike_7 Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 If God reveals Himself then He is revealing all of Him ( that includes Jesus) love your sister in Christ, Rebekah David Ummmm....did you see my last post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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