Is it possible for ANY of Jesus' sheep to go to hell?

[forrestkc]

I would like to address the original question here, "Is it possible for any of Jesus' sheep to go to hell?" Absolutely not, because they are safe within his fold and protected. The bigger question is, what happens to one of Jesus' sheep that strays from the fold? Is it possible that they could wind up in hell? The answer is absolutely. Let's take a look at what Jesus says in Luke 15:4. "What man of you having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? Since the primary question here is that of the shepherd seeking the sheep that wandered off, we can overlook the fact that this sheep is LOST. When a sheep is in the fold, it is protected from harm by the shepherd, just like when a Christian is in Jesus' hand he is also protected. In the fold, no wolf will be allowed to harm the sheep, and in Jesus' hand, no man can pluck one of his children out. At the same time, there is nothing preventing a sheep from wandering off of his own accord, or a man from walking away from Jesus' hand on his own, like the prodigal son.

Let's focus on the word lost for a moment. It comes from the Greek word apollumi, and means to destroy fully, die, lose, mar, perish. This is the same Greek word that describes the condition of the prodigal while he was away from the Father in sin. While a person is living for Christ, and safe in the fold, there is no fear of hell. If he wanders away, he is just as a sheep alone in the wilderness, completely vulnerable. A sheep without a shepherd doesn't stand a chance, and will eventually be killed. A Christian who has wandered away from the good shepherd is in the same place, heading for destruction, which means eternity in hell if they don't repent and return to the Lord. If the good shepherd finds a lost sheep, and that lost sheep won't return to the fold, he no longer belongs to the shepherd, and therefore will go to hell.

Conclusion of the matter. It is not possible for any of Jesus' sheep to go to hell, but it is possible for someone who was once one of his sheep to wander away and go to hell.

Good Job

What would the difference be in this and how the Catholics say "within grace" vs "outside of grace"?

[Guest LAW]

This gives believers such freedom! Instead of wondering if a wrong step here or there or a wrong word will send us into the fiery pit, we know that if we follow our Lord and we listen to the thirst for righteousness that He awakens in our heart, we can have assurance that He has the power to keep us safe from the evil one (and the evil world for that matter). We don't have to step around eggshells. If we are shod in the armour of God that St. Paul tells us about, we are warriors on our knees, going out to do the Lord's work in His fields.

Praise God!

[Ovedya]

I would like to address the original question here, "Is it possible for any of Jesus' sheep to go to hell?" Absolutely not, because they are safe within his fold and protected. The bigger question is, what happens to one of Jesus' sheep that strays from the fold? Is it possible that they could wind up in hell? The answer is absolutely. Let's take a look at what Jesus says in Luke 15:4. "What man of you having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? Since the primary question here is that of the shepherd seeking the sheep that wandered off, we can overlook the fact that this sheep is LOST. When a sheep is in the fold, it is protected from harm by the shepherd, just like when a Christian is in Jesus' hand he is also protected. In the fold, no wolf will be allowed to harm the sheep, and in Jesus' hand, no man can pluck one of his children out. At the same time, there is nothing preventing a sheep from wandering off of his own accord, or a man from walking away from Jesus' hand on his own, like the prodigal son.

Let's focus on the word lost for a moment. It comes from the Greek word apollumi, and means to destroy fully, die, lose, mar, perish. This is the same Greek word that describes the condition of the prodigal while he was away from the Father in sin. While a person is living for Christ, and safe in the fold, there is no fear of hell. If he wanders away, he is just as a sheep alone in the wilderness, completely vulnerable. A sheep without a shepherd doesn't stand a chance, and will eventually be killed. A Christian who has wandered away from the good shepherd is in the same place, heading for destruction, which means eternity in hell if they don't repent and return to the Lord. If the good shepherd finds a lost sheep, and that lost sheep won't return to the fold, he no longer belongs to the shepherd, and therefore will go to hell.

Conclusion of the matter. It is not possible for any of Jesus' sheep to go to hell, but it is possible for someone who was once one of his sheep to wander away and go to hell.

Well to begin with, your ussage of Luke 15 is completely out of context.

There are three parables in Luke 15. The first parable refers to the Son as the Shepherd, going out after the lost sheep. This refers to the Son's having come to the earth as a man to seek the sinners. The second parable refers to the Spirit - the woman seeking the lost coin - her "sweeping" is the work of the Spirit's convicting the heart of the sinner. Finally, the third parable refers to the Father's receiving of the prodigal son. The entire Divine Trinity treasures the sinner and participates in bringing him back to God. All three parables stress the love of the Divine Trinity more than the fallen condition and repentance of the penitent sinner. The divine love is fully expressed in the Son's tender care as the good shepherd, in the Spirit's fine seeking as the treasure-lover, and in the Father's warm receiving as a loving father.

These parables reveal the complete Gospel of the divine Trinity. It's simply a gross misapplication of the Gospel to apply these parables in any way, shape or form to the issue of "losing one's salvation."

Secondly, Apollomi is a compound word. It comes from two words, "Apo," which means "to separate" and "Olethros," which means, "to ruin." All sinners are in a state of separation and ruin before they come to Christ. Yet when Christ saves them they are joined to Him (1 Cor. 6:17) and are filled with His life. they are no longer in a state of separation, and cannot be separated from Him.

In reference to Himself as the Good Shepherd, Jesus said, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; And I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means perish forever, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand." (John 10:27-29)

Note that Jesus said three things here: 1) "They shall by no means perish forever..", 2) No one can snatch them out of my hand, and 3) No one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

Now, you want to talk Greek? Okay, let's talk Greek. First, the word Zoe appears in verse 28. Zoe is the eternal uncreated life of God. Zoe can never perish, never diminish, and can never be destroyed. Second, that word appolomi appears again in that verse, but before it is the word aeon, with a modifier Ou me. So, simply, when the Lord Jesus said, "They shall by no means perish forever," he was saying, "They shall by no means, at all, at any time, in any way, perish forever." There is simply no doubt in this one single verse that the Lord's sheep shall never perish forever.

In the second half of verse 28 the Lord said, "No one can snatch them out of my hand." In the Greek that's "...And neither shall any man snatch them away [Carry away by force]. And in the second half of verse 29 it is "And no man is able [capable, powerful enough, has any ability] to snatch them out of my Father's hand.

The language is emphatic in stating clearly that at no time, by any means, shall any of the Lord's sheep, who have the eternal life of God, perish. To have eterna life is to have life eternally. That is, it is to have the life of God - Zoe - eternally.

Finally, were it even true that the prodigal son represents a saved person walking away from God's grace, becoming unsaved and then saved again through repentance, it cannot be shown that at any time the son was not the son, that he somehow was genetically separated from his father.

[EricH]

I would like to address the original question here, "Is it possible for any of Jesus' sheep to go to hell?" Absolutely not, because they are safe within his fold and protected. The bigger question is, what happens to one of Jesus' sheep that strays from the fold? Is it possible that they could wind up in hell? The answer is absolutely. Let's take a look at what Jesus says in Luke 15:4. "What man of you having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? Since the primary question here is that of the shepherd seeking the sheep that wandered off, we can overlook the fact that this sheep is LOST. When a sheep is in the fold, it is protected from harm by the shepherd, just like when a Christian is in Jesus' hand he is also protected. In the fold, no wolf will be allowed to harm the sheep, and in Jesus' hand, no man can pluck one of his children out. At the same time, there is nothing preventing a sheep from wandering off of his own accord, or a man from walking away from Jesus' hand on his own, like the prodigal son.

Let's focus on the word lost for a moment. It comes from the Greek word apollumi, and means to destroy fully, die, lose, mar, perish. This is the same Greek word that describes the condition of the prodigal while he was away from the Father in sin. While a person is living for Christ, and safe in the fold, there is no fear of hell. If he wanders away, he is just as a sheep alone in the wilderness, completely vulnerable. A sheep without a shepherd doesn't stand a chance, and will eventually be killed. A Christian who has wandered away from the good shepherd is in the same place, heading for destruction, which means eternity in hell if they don't repent and return to the Lord. If the good shepherd finds a lost sheep, and that lost sheep won't return to the fold, he no longer belongs to the shepherd, and therefore will go to hell.

Conclusion of the matter. It is not possible for any of Jesus' sheep to go to hell, but it is possible for someone who was once one of his sheep to wander away and go to hell.

Well to begin with, your ussage of Luke 15 is completely out of context.

There are three parables in Luke 15. The first parable refers to the Son as the Shepherd, going out after the lost sheep. This refers to the Son's having come to the earth as a man to seek the sinners. The second parable refers to the Spirit - the woman seeking the lost coin - her "sweeping" is the work of the Spirit's convicting the heart of the sinner. Finally, the third parable refers to the Father's receiving of the prodigal son. The entire Divine Trinity treasures the sinner and participates in bringing him back to God. All three parables stress the love of the Divine Trinity more than the fallen condition and repentance of the penitent sinner. The divine love is fully expressed in the Son's tender care as the good shepherd, in the Spirit's fine seeking as the treasure-lover, and in the Father's warm receiving as a loving father.

These parables reveal the complete Gospel of the divine Trinity. It's simply a gross misapplication of the Gospel to apply these parables in any way, shape or form to the issue of "losing one's salvation."

Secondly, Apollomi is a compound word. It comes from two words, "Apo," which means "to separate" and "Olethros," which means, "to ruin." All sinners are in a state of separation and ruin before they come to Christ. Yet when Christ saves them they are joined to Him (1 Cor. 6:17) and are filled with His life. they are no longer in a state of separation, and cannot be separated from Him.

In reference to Himself as the Good Shepherd, Jesus said, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; And I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means perish forever, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand." (John 10:27-29)

Note that Jesus said three things here: 1) "They shall by no means perish forever..", 2) No one can snatch them out of my hand, and 3) No one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

Now, you want to talk Greek? Okay, let's talk Greek. First, the word Zoe appears in verse 28. Zoe is the eternal uncreated life of God. Zoe can never perish, never diminish, and can never be destroyed. Second, that word appolomi appears again in that verse, but before it is the word aeon, with a modifier Ou me. So, simply, when the Lord Jesus said, "They shall by no means perish forever," he was saying, "They shall by no means, at all, at any time, in any way, perish forever." There is simply no doubt in this one single verse that the Lord's sheep shall never perish forever.

In the second half of verse 28 the Lord said, "No one can snatch them out of my hand." In the Greek that's "...And neither shall any man snatch them away [Carry away by force]. And in the second half of verse 29 it is "And no man is able [capable, powerful enough, has any ability] to snatch them out of my Father's hand.

The language is emphatic in stating clearly that at no time, by any means, shall any of the Lord's sheep, who have the eternal life of God, perish. To have eternal life is to have life eternally. That is, it is to have the life of God - Zoe - eternally.

Finally, were it even true that the prodigal son represents a saved person walking away from God's grace, becoming unsaved and then saved again through repentance, it cannot be shown that at any time the son was not the son, that he somehow was genetically separated from his father.

Could not have said it better myself

[firehill]

The Shepherd will not lose His sheep. Thank God He's the Shepherd.

That's right. If we truly are sheep and abide in Him and are known by Him, then the "sheep" are never lost. Only goats!

See my parting verse below...

'What man of you having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?'

[Floatingaxe]

The Shepherd will not lose His sheep. Thank God He's the Shepherd.

That's right. If we truly are sheep and abide in Him and are known by Him, then the "sheep" are never lost. Only goats!

See my parting verse below...

'What man of you having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?'

Very good, firegirl! May I add to that? I think that you would have to be a true sheep first, in order to be one of the lost ones that The Good Shepherd would seek after to bring back. Some are just goats with sheepskin on. Jesus knows who they are.

[forrestkc]

If one believes that after being saved you cannot turn from God, thus continual repentance is not a condition of salvation, then how do they reconcile that to passages like:

Matthew 13-20-21

20

The seed sown on rocky ground is the one who hears the word and receives it at once with joy.

21

But he has no root and lasts only for a time. When some tribulation or persecution comes because of the word, he immediately falls away.

Also, in John 3:16 it says believes, not believe or believed.

Or Mark 13:13

"You will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved."

Moreover, salvation in scripture does not seem to be described as just some past event, but rather its in the present tense as well.

For example, take Philippians 2:12

"So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

John 10:28 says:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand."

I have always taken that to mean that no one is capable of nullifying our salvation. That nothing on earth can snatch us from God. Basically, if I am on a boat far out in a lake and everyone else is on shore, they can't exactly push me out of the boat. However, that would not mean that I could not chose to jump out of the boat myself.

Later on in John 15:6 Jesus tells us:

"Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned."

Now, if salvation was a done deal and not something that we could chose to turn away from, then why would Jesus warn us about turning away from him? It seems to me that the point is that must freely choose to enter into a relationship with Christ, no one on earth can snatch you from him, but you can freely choose to turn away from him.

[Joshua-777]

Nope, no one is able to snatch us from his hand, I'd say the important part of this is, What are his sheep? he says my sheep hear my voice "A personal relationship with him" and I know them, They follow me" meaning we have to walk in spirit, many can believe and not follow I dont feel they are his sheep.

[forrestkc]

Nope, no one is able to snatch us from his hand, I'd say the important part of this is, What are his sheep? he says my sheep hear my voice "A personal relationship with him" and I know them, They follow me" meaning we have to walk in spirit, many can believe and not follow I dont feel they are his sheep.

But just because no one can snatch you from his hand does not mean that you cant choose to jump from it yourself. If I am in a car speeding down the road, no one can pull me from that car, but I can still jump from it. Hence the importance of continual repentance after accepting Christ.

[Ovedya]

Nope, no one is able to snatch us from his hand, I'd say the important part of this is, What are his sheep? he says my sheep hear my voice "A personal relationship with him" and I know them, They follow me" meaning we have to walk in spirit, many can believe and not follow I dont feel they are his sheep.

But just because no one can snatch you from his hand does not mean that you cant choose to jump from it yourself. If I am in a car speeding down the road, no one can pull me from that car, but I can still jump from it. Hence the importance of continual repentance after accepting Christ.

Why focus on something that is not in the verse (Just because it says no one can, doesn't mean that you can't) instead of focussing on that which is in the verse. It says "they shall by no means perish forever." It take that to mean, "they shall by no means perish forever."

You have chosen the doctrines of men over the words of the Bible.