larry_boy_44 Posted January 30, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 41 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2007 uh... the Pharisees didn't obey the letter of the law... Jesus called them hypocrites for not following what they preached... That isn't right. They obeyed THEIR so-called laws to the letter, ignoring the Truth behind them and following traditions based on form, outward shows. The Pharisees were obedient to their own laws of tradition, the Talmud, for example. That was not God's law--that was the law of Jewish traditon, and was obeyed to give the appearance of devoutness and righteousness, and superiority. This is what Jesus saw through. That is why they were labelled hypocrites, as they had an outward form of righteousness but no Truth. they publically showed a fact that they obeyed THIER LAW... which was NOT God's Law... but behind closed doors they didn't even do that (hence why they were hypocrites) hypocrite <> legalist they claimed to follow God's law, but didn't, rather they followed thier own, which wasn't real. That is not what anyone is doing now when they say that we shouldn't do things that are sinful. Or do you really think saying someone shouldn't murder is a sin because it isn't part of God's law??? What this originated from was an assertion that particular clothing items were sinful. We all know that the Word of God instructs us and compels us to dress with all modesty. Nowhere does it tell us what items of clothing we are to avoid or embrace. God knows that fashions will change through the ages because of our artistic creativity. He instructs us also that the perversion of cross-dressing, in order to resemble the opposite gender is sinful. That we must avoid wearing certain clothing items which a few people have misconstrued as sinful, is legalism. They are misusing their authority to bypass any work of sanctification by the Holy Spirit, whose job it is to teach the individual about such things. Once again, you are long on opinions, and short on scripture. Where is your scripture that says that a woman cannot wear women's apparel? Anyone who itemizes particular items and says they are sinful and forbids the wearing of it is a legalist, a modern-day Pharisee who adheres to a rule, a man-made law, a tradition, a letter, rather than internalizing the spirit of the Word pertaining to the subject. What would happen if a young couple came into your church wearing jeans? How long would they be welcome doing so? How long before someone would take them aside and tell them they are dressing immodestly? My contention is that pants pertain to a man and are therefore not women's garments. I am also contending that there is no such sin as "legalism." It is a man-made doctrine, tradition if you will, similar to the ones the Pharisees made up to avoid living up to God's standards with regard to things like honoring Father and Mother. In other words, I believe those of the anti-legalism crowd are closer to the Pharisees than those who are falsely labeled legalists. Jesus would never have rebuked the Pharisees for holding to the law, because they stood in Moses' seat. Jesus even said that. As for the young couple, I have already seen how that is dealt with. They are welcomed into the congregation, and taught over time the standards of the church. They have new converts classes if you will, and most eventually conform. I suppose if they don't conform, there are a gazion churches that promote casual dress. They can go to one of them. You are wrong about what legalism is. You are wrong about pants! And I find it pitiful that anyone who doesn't "conform" would find themselves unwelcome enough to want to leave your church, because they wore jeans. why would you want to go to a church that preaches that pants are a man's garmant only if you were a woman who wore pants??? I mean, really, stop trying to force your opinions on everyone else around you... I wouldn't, unless they were open to the truth. As for your second comment, I could say the same thing to you, as well as the fact that where I go to church, and what they teach is none of your business. ???? I'm not trying to push anything on anyone, except I can't stand this "YOU'RE LEGALISTIC!!!" nonsense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 KittyLover, I haven't read every post so this has probably already been said: I imagine anyone today who truly loves the Lord, who tries to live seperately from the world, and who hates sin and is obedient to God, is considered by the lukewarm church as "legalistic". I wouldn't put much stock in many people really knowing legalism from obedience in our society. Legalism is "silliness" like not allowing women to wear pants because it's deemed masculine. C'mon don't trivialise and bring down the Word to human standards and you know human standards fall short with God. If Jesus can forgive an udulterous woman in the midst of men, surely He wouldn't frown at women who wear pants as suggested on a previous post. Legalism is a ploy from the enemy...it has NOTHING to do with obedience to the Word. Legalism destroys ala (the destroyer) ...God's Word brings Life. I KNOW where I stand and Who I stand FOR. Not legalism! Not the destroyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 The Pharisee ended up obeying ADJUSTED laws. If they had STUCK to the Original God ordained laws alot of hassels wouldn't have emerged. Take for example when God formed a covenant between man and woman, the covenant of Marriage. It was God ordained and only to seperate IF Adultery had been committed. Moses had to introduce divorce because of the hardness of their hearts , the Israelites had veered off from the original God ordained plan. But when the Pharisses were trying to TRAP Jesus with this particular topic, Jesus refers to the origal plan that God had intended for mankind. Lets not twist Scripture to SUIT OUR wants and desires. It must be God's desires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry_boy_44 Posted January 30, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 41 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2007 KittyLover, I haven't read every post so this has probably already been said: I imagine anyone today who truly loves the Lord, who tries to live seperately from the world, and who hates sin and is obedient to God, is considered by the lukewarm church as "legalistic". I wouldn't put much stock in many people really knowing legalism from obedience in our society. Legalism is "silliness" like not allowing women to wear pants because it's deemed masculine. C'mon don't trivialise and bring down the Word to human standards and you know human standards fall short with God. If Jesus can forgive an udulterous woman in the midst of men, surely He wouldn't frown at women who wear pants as suggested on a previous post. Legalism is a ploy from the enemy...it has NOTHING to do with obedience to the Word. Legalism destroys ala (the destroyer) ...God's Word brings Life. I KNOW where I stand and Who I stand FOR. Not legalism! Not the destroyer. but you are imposing a man made standards on others to tell them they cna't have man-made standards... who told you that you could define what men could wear and what women could wear?? You yourself are doing the same thing the "legalists" you are coming against are doing, only you're telling everyone they cna do what they want, when they're telling people there are things they can't do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry_boy_44 Posted January 30, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 41 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2007 Would you equate legalism as being like a wolf in sheeps clothing......? I would say legalism is a wolf in wolves clothing. I personally do not understand how someone could even view legalism as innocent. It is most obviously a ravenous wolf. That is also what it looks like. I don't understand how anyone can keep coming against something that doesn't exist. There is not one place in scripture where the subject of "legalism" is ever mentioned. It is a made up sin for the purpose of silencing people from standing against whatever sins a particular individual is committing. Wake up! Legalism exists, whether the word is in the bible or not. It is the same thing as Phariseeism...obeying the letter of the law versus the spirit of it, as Fiosh has defined it well. Legalism imposes a form of righteous behaviour that should come from the conviction of the Holy Spirit in a process of sanctification. It bypasses that work, and is an abomination. uh... the Pharisees didn't obey the letter of the law... Jesus called them hypocrites for not following what they preached... The phrisees did obey the letter of the law. The problem was they obeyed the letter while having hearts like vipers. Their outward actions were righteous, but their hearts were rotten. it is impossible to obey the letter of the law when your heart is in that condition... Why? Elaborate. simple, if you have a heart of a viper, God is not your true god, thus you are not following the law... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 KittyLover, I haven't read every post so this has probably already been said: I imagine anyone today who truly loves the Lord, who tries to live seperately from the world, and who hates sin and is obedient to God, is considered by the lukewarm church as "legalistic". I wouldn't put much stock in many people really knowing legalism from obedience in our society. Legalism is "silliness" like not allowing women to wear pants because it's deemed masculine. C'mon don't trivialise and bring down the Word to human standards and you know human standards fall short with God. If Jesus can forgive an udulterous woman in the midst of men, surely He wouldn't frown at women who wear pants as suggested on a previous post. Legalism is a ploy from the enemy...it has NOTHING to do with obedience to the Word. Legalism destroys ala (the destroyer) ...God's Word brings Life. I KNOW where I stand and Who I stand FOR. Not legalism! Not the destroyer. but you are imposing a man made standards on others to tell them they cna't have man-made standards... who told you that you could define what men could wear and what women could wear?? You yourself are doing the same thing the "legalists" you are coming against are doing, only you're telling everyone they cna do what they want, when they're telling people there are things they can't do... You've got me mistaken for someone else.I have never imposed manmade standards..actually time and again I have been referring others back to God's Word which you always need to do when in doubt with what man has stated. Go back to God's Word and check it out. I won't go by mans self imposed standard but only Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry_boy_44 Posted January 30, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 41 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2007 KittyLover, I haven't read every post so this has probably already been said: I imagine anyone today who truly loves the Lord, who tries to live seperately from the world, and who hates sin and is obedient to God, is considered by the lukewarm church as "legalistic". I wouldn't put much stock in many people really knowing legalism from obedience in our society. Legalism is "silliness" like not allowing women to wear pants because it's deemed masculine. C'mon don't trivialise and bring down the Word to human standards and you know human standards fall short with God. If Jesus can forgive an udulterous woman in the midst of men, surely He wouldn't frown at women who wear pants as suggested on a previous post. Legalism is a ploy from the enemy...it has NOTHING to do with obedience to the Word. Legalism destroys ala (the destroyer) ...God's Word brings Life. I KNOW where I stand and Who I stand FOR. Not legalism! Not the destroyer. but you are imposing a man made standards on others to tell them they cna't have man-made standards... who told you that you could define what men could wear and what women could wear?? You yourself are doing the same thing the "legalists" you are coming against are doing, only you're telling everyone they cna do what they want, when they're telling people there are things they can't do... You've got me mistaken for someone else.I have never imposed manmade standards..actually time and again I have been referring others back to God's Word which you always need to do when in doubt with what man has stated. Go back to God's Word and check it out. I won't go by mans self imposed standard but only Scripture. stating that women can wear pants is making just as much a standard as saying they can't.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted January 30, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Yeah, um, Larry...if you're looking for the person who's saying "pants are mens-only" it's Butero, not lnj....just FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted January 30, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I know how we can get rid of this clothing debate. GET RID OF CLOTHING!!! WE SHOULD ALL BE NAKED AND FREE OF THE SIN OF CLOTHING!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 [ stating that women can wear pants is making just as much a standard as saying they can't.... I won't bring God down to mans standards. The God I've grown to KNOW, LOVE and OBEY, is a God WHO is BIGGER than the trivialness of man. If you want to argue for aguements sake, I'm not interested. I've Never told anyone what to wear, that's not my style, but I know God is PRACTICAL and logical as well as the King of COMMONSENSE. When you drag God down to mans level of thinking, I'm simply not interested in the conversation. If it was a nonbeliever I was talking to ..different matter but not when it's a brother and sister in Christ...you should KNOW better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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