Guest Calamity Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 OK, I found a little something on what I was trying to say. It's called Semi-Arianism. This other person was Oneness, but was saying the same thing that the Semi-Arian belief held, about Jesus - that there was a "time when He was not". I never figured out exactly what she was meaning, because she also kept saying He was not created. http://www.franciscan-sfo.org/TXO/ARIANISM.HTM "Arianism was a 4th-century Christian heresy named for Arius (c.250-c.336), a priest in Alexandria... Three types of Arianism emerged: radical Arianism, which asserted that the Son was "dissimilar" to the Father; homoeanism, which held that the Son was similar to the Father; and semi-Arianism, which shaded off into orthodoxy and held that the Son was similar yet distinct from the Father." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dove2 Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 This is the way oneness was explained to me. There is only one and not three: They have three different personalities. The Father was in the Old Testament and sat on His throne and gave the world over to Jesus. Jesus was in the New Testament and He died for our sins but it was still God and He is not in heaven anymore because He was in human form on earth as Jesus. Now that Jesus died for our sins, the Father and Son have their work done so they are not in heaven either, they are the Holy Spirit who is God but the Father and Son have done their work so they are now the Holy Spirit. I can only say what I was told by a oneness preacher on this doctrine. Therefore, even though the Bible says to baptise int he name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they say only to baptise in the name of Jesus because Jesus is the name. When Jesus comes back to get us there will be no more God or Holy Spirit because Jesus is God and Jesus is God's name. I have been to a oneness chruch once or twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Calamity Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I've never heard it that way, dove. Maybe when tiggr gets back on he'll answer the questions, or explain them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith1 Posted December 20, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 891 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/25/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2003 Dove/Calamity, Well if that's the case as you have both explained then it does not seem to be grounded biblically and not doctrinally sound as far as I can see. Obviously bits here and there are correct but bits here and there are not enough for me I'm afraid has to be the whole caboodle or nothing, ahs to be biblically and doctrinally sound, and I cant really see that this Oneness thingi is. A little on sandy ground I'd say... Thanks both for your input I appreciate it. Love Ya both F1 BTW PMed you bout my turn of events today lol...the Lord sure is at work with all the prayer man that Gary must have a good hook up to God...as well as you 2 and others sheeeesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tiggr Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Ok here goes nothing (ha ha) first Jesus has always been, there is no time when Jesus was not. The only thing that was created was the human body that He walked on earth in. Jesus is the manifestation of the invisible God. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: We can not see or touch a spirit so in order for God to come to the earth, be rejected by His own people (John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.) and in order for Him to die on the cross for our sins he had to take on flesh. Now I know that no matter who you talk to that their are many different opinions about what i am about to say but here goes. Jesus was a human being. He was thirsty, hungry, tired, he felt pain and he was tempted of the devil but he had the Spirit of God inside of him. He was both human and divine. It was his human side that felt the pain and hunger but it was the Spirit of God that was in him that raised the dead, fed the five thousand, raised Lazerous from the dead and walked on the water. There is only one and not three: They have three different personalities. The Father was in the Old Testament and sat on His throne and gave the world over to Jesus. Jesus was in the New Testament and He died for our sins but it was still God and He is not in heaven anymore because He was in human form on earth as Jesus. Now that Jesus died for our sins, the Father and Son have their work done so they are not in heaven either, they are the Holy Spirit who is God but the Father and Son have done their work so they are now the Holy Spirit. I can only say what I was told by a oneness preacher on this doctrine. Just as all trinitarians do not agree on things there are some oneness that dont agree on things. The above statement is false. First God is not only still in heaven but God is every where( Ps 139:7-8 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.) Until His enemies are made His footstool (the rapture of the church and once satan and those who follow him are cast into the lake of fire) Jesus work is not done but even then God will always exist. As far as the personalities thing, I dont see it as personalities but manifestations. God was and will always be, God was the Father in that he created all things in heaven and earth. He created the human body inside the womb of Mary for the purpose that His Spirit would dwell in it that He could redeem humanity. Let me put it this way I am a father to my children, a husband to my wife and a son to my parents but yet I am one person. God is the Father of creation, the Son in redemption and the Holy Ghost ( the Spirit of God) is our comforter. Therefore, even though the Bible says to baptise int he name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they say only to baptise in the name of Jesus because Jesus is the name. If you read Matthew 28:19 it says in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Name as in singular, look at Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Now look at Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Now in these scriptures you do not see where they were baptized using the Father Son and Holy Ghost but in the name (singular) look at these two scriptures Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, If you look at the history of the early church even the Catholic church says that they baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and not using the formula as mentioned above. Arianism was a 4th-century Christian heresy named for Arius (c.250-c.336), a priest in Alexandria... This came about because he did not hold to the doctrine of the Catholic church and that he said that Baptism should be done in the name of Jesus Christ not Father Son and Holy Ghost. Because of Arius and some others that believed like he did, the council of Nicea was held in 325 A.D. which was overseen by emperor Constatine where the Catholic church decreed that eveyone was to baptize using the Father Son Holy Ghost or else they were labeled as heretics Well thats all I can do for tonight it's to late for me G-night and God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Calamity Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 From what you've explained, then you are not talking like the other person who was saying the Semi-Arianism talk. She said she was oneness, but it must have been a different branch of it, or something. Sounds like instead of the Trinity - God being One, but 3 separate Persons in One, you believe more like God being One, but 3 separate Personalities? And, the name to be baptized in. Do you believe that Jesus was fully God and fully human, the whole time He was here on earth? When they were told to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, then, when it mentions them baptizing they say in the name of Jesus instead, (at least where it is recorded), to me, that is another way of showing that Jesus is God. (There are some that do not believe that.) I do not believe they disobeyed. Thanks for the explanation, because I have heard some others who say they are Oneness who have said some pretty far off things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted December 21, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,986 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2003 Genesis 1:26 - "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. This verse definitely shows that there were at least two persons present for the creation. Obviously God the Father was one of them, but: John 1:1-12 proves that Christ was also there in the beginning, and that He too took part in the creation. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Calamity Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 I think that God is One in three Persons, not just Personalities. 1John.5 [7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. ------------------- Here is some places where the Holy Ghost is referred to as "He": John.14 [16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. -------------------------- So, I believe that God is a Trinity made up of 3 Persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tiggr Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Genesis 1:26 - "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. This verse definitely shows that there were at least two persons present for the creation. Obviously God the Father was one of them, but: Let's look at something here Isa 46:9-10 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: In Isaiah 46 we see God telling us that He declares things as though they have already happened, nothing wrong there because He knows all things any way right? He knew that one day He would have to take on the form of man in order to save His creation but yet He still created us.( that says alot about His love for us) When He was forming Adam from the dust of the earth God knew even then what He would one day do for us ( Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.) Here is something to look at about the name Zech 14:9 9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. What is the name that this scripture is refering to? Acts 4:12 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Well gotta go God Bless and have a good weekend Tiggr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith1 Posted December 21, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 891 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/25/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2003 I think that God is One in three Persons, not just Personalities. 1John.5 [7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. ------------------- Here is some places where the Holy Ghost is referred to as "He": John.14 [16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. -------------------------- So, I believe that God is a Trinity made up of 3 Persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. Amen Calamity I believe the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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