Floatingaxe Posted April 2, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Sorry I'm late getting, but I have just finished my breakfast, but it doesn't matter because trmfiles has answered all the questions that were levelled at me. FA you are digging yourself into a hole and it's getting deeper with each post. Even David prayed that God would not take His Holy Spirit away from him and restore unto to hin the joy of His salvation and uphold him with His free spirit. Salvation, therefore was available even then. And David was not a king? We are not in disagreement. Welcome to my cozy hole. FA said Consistently throughout the OT you will see God's Spirit "coming upon" various individuals. God poured out His Spirit on whom He chose...prophets, leaders, priests, elders of the people, ministers in the tabernacle and sanctuary, military leaders, judges and kings. Rahab, from the OT, is listed among the heroes of faith in Hebrews 11, NT. I noticed in your "selective" list of groups of "leaders", you forgot to mention.... I wonder how many more you are unaware of???? She was a harlot. She was used of God, and she was chosen for such use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted April 2, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 2, 2007 There are a lot of christians who belive that the restrainer spoken of in 2Thes.2:7 is the Holy Spirit, but you are right tmrfiles, if the Holy Spirit is taken, who is the only one who has the power to convict, who is going to convict the lost during the tribulation. Well, how was there "conviction" before the Holy Spirit was on earth? Ya know, before the Day of Pentecost. And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. {2} And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. {3} Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words. Deut 33:1-3 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Hebrews 9:8 Grace was still fully operational in the Old Testament and the method of salvation was no different for them as it is for us today. This means those who were saved before the cross were indwelled with the Holy Spirit as we are or else they were not saved. There are multitudes of OT saints who were given the Holy Spirit, and walked by faith in God, beginning in Genesis. This is the problem when people do not read and study the OT, which is very relevant today. A couple of examples here: In speaking of Joseph, it is written "And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?" Genesis 41:38 But the spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet; and Abiezer was gathered after him. Judges 6:34 A study of Hebrews Chapter 11 would be helpful to you. to an extent i agree grace was in operation in OT however the Holy Sprit dwelled inside certain individuals not everyone. Having faith does not mean you were given the H.S. in the OT. when Christ said "John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;", do you feel they already had the HS "in" them when he said that? not sure how you're taking the stance that people received HS when "saved" in OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted April 2, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Sorry I'm late getting, but I have just finished my breakfast, but it doesn't matter because trmfiles has answered all the questions that were levelled at me. FA you are digging yourself into a hole and it's getting deeper with each post. Even David prayed that God would not take His Holy Spirit away from him and restore unto to hin the joy of His salvation and uphold him with His free spirit. Salvation, therefore was available even then. And David was not a king? We are not in disagreement. Welcome to my cozy hole. It took the Lord Jesus, 20 yrs to pull me out of the hole I was in, so I don't think I wan't to jump into the one you are digging for your self. Thanks, but no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 2, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 2, 2007 It's truly ridiculous for you to be telling me I am digging myself into a hole. PLEASE study the issue for yourselves. The role and presence of the Holy Spirit is different in this age of Grace than it was before Christ. It is indeed a privilege to be counted among the millions of believers born in this Church age! It is a privilege to have the Holy Spirit as a personal companion 24/7, teaching all things, convicting of all sin, and equipping each believer to do the things that Jesus did and would do. Israel before had the Law to convict and teach, and prophets to bring the Word of God to them, and judges and kings to rule with the authority of God over them. We have the Holy Spirit within each believing individual now who teaches, rules, and equips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted April 2, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted April 2, 2007 FA, sister, I am not arguing with everything you are saying. The holy spirit may have been expressed in the OT differenrly than in the NT,but His pescence was there none the less. So if the H/S was present at the beginning I feel that He will be there at the end. He is, when all said and done the third person of the Godhead and will be for all eternity. The work of the H/S is to convict sinners and point them to Christ, not to restrain the a/c. Michael did a pretty good job of that in Daniel's time, so I suppose he's quite able now. Anyway, that's how I see things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 2, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 2, 2007 FA, sister, I am not arguing with everything you are saying. The holy spirit may have been expressed in the OT differenrly than in the NT,but His pescence was there none the less. So if the H/S was present at the beginning I feel that He will be there at the end. He is, when all said and done the third person of the Godhead and will be for all eternity. The work of the H/S is to convict sinners and point them to Christ, not to restrain the a/c. Michael did a pretty good job of that in Daniel's time, so I suppose he's quite able now. Anyway, that's how I see things. Once again, we agree. Of course, the Holy Spirit has never been apart from the Father. Where have I ever stated otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted April 2, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted April 2, 2007 FA, your reply to man, post #41. That's a stretch. The Church also will be taken out of the way--removed--so that the lawless one can do his thing. There is not too much difference between the two wordings you have provided. Either way, the Holy Spirit is not active, because He, too, I believe is going to be at the wedding. Yeah, right. So whilst the H/S is noshing up at the wedding, the ole a/c is going to wreak havoc down here on earth, C'mon Axey, you know that all three persons of the Godhead are omni-present. Hey, sis, I'm not trying to put you down, I get a bit fired up when people keep on about the rapture, the apostacy, the man of lawlessness (aka the son of perdition) and the restrainer. I, personally feel that God is not going to play favourites at the end. There is no such thing as a good christian or a bad one, We won't know who is what until we are put to the test during the trib........We have been warned. You have a good day in the Lord, Axey, and be blessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace1479 Posted April 2, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/09/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/20/1968 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Thanks CJ. I was thinking the whole day of how to write someting like this without offending someone, but I really couldn't said it better. You hit the nail on the head. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted April 2, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted April 2, 2007 HEEEEY, CJ, brother, nice try CJ, but you and I have been down that road and I still don't buy into your estimation of events. I always state what I think as opinions, not facts. It's my understanding that the Lord was going to seperate the goats from the sheep,after the tribulation. I mean to sayis, just because a person has gone throigh the motions of confessing repenting and reciting some form of sinners prayer, though they might obtain salvation, it doesn't mean that they are on the rapture list, they have to go through a period of sanctification to be approved worthy of their redemption. There are many new born again christians out there who are really striving to be worthy, but the cross gets too heavy and they lay it down and slip back into the world. if they do that, then they are not fully repentant, which would appear that they wouldn't be fully saved. Now I'm not talking about those who slip and accidentally commit some minor sin on the spur of the moment. So I can't imagine Jesus coming down a whisking away those that think they are super saints and leave the poor old strugglers to go through the tribulation., then coming back a second time to gather up all the martyrs, who refused to worship the a/c. There are a lot of chest thumpers, who call themselves christian. like the pharasee in the synagogue, but all have to pass the test in the end. I hope for everyone's sake that your assessment is the true one, JC because I believe you are a genuine brother in the Lord.............g'nite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 2, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 2, 2007 FA, your reply to man, post #41. That's a stretch. The Church also will be taken out of the way--removed--so that the lawless one can do his thing. There is not too much difference between the two wordings you have provided. Either way, the Holy Spirit is not active, because He, too, I believe is going to be at the wedding. Yeah, right. So whilst the H/S is noshing up at the wedding, the ole a/c is going to wreak havoc down here on earth, C'mon Axey, you know that all three persons of the Godhead are omni-present. Hey, sis, I'm not trying to put you down, I get a bit fired up when people keep on about the rapture, the apostacy, the man of lawlessness (aka the son of perdition) and the restrainer. I, personally feel that God is not going to play favourites at the end. There is no such thing as a good christian or a bad one, We won't know who is what until we are put to the test during the trib........We have been warned. You have a good day in the Lord, Axey, and be blessed. Favourites? The Church is His favourite, and she will be kept from the wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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