Christians rejecting the Faith?

[Guest shiloh357]

I apologize for the lengthy post, I know better, but I needed to post this in its entirety.

Can a "Real" Christian Lose His or Her Salvation by Renouncing or Rejecting The Faith?

by Dr. John Ankerberg and Dr. John Weldon

HOME PAGE for Lion of Judah: Christian Apologetics

[One] misunderstanding [of eternal security] is the idea that it denies the balance between human will and freedom. If our salvation is absolutely certain, does this not nullify human responsibility? And is it not logical that if my belief resulted in salvation that my unbelief or loss of faith must result in my loss of salvation, lest my own freedom and responsibility be denied?

But the doctrine of security does not deny our human will or freedom. First of all, human freedom, while real, is by definition also subject to God's sovereignty. This argument ignores the purposes of God to save His own children. Second, belief alone did not result in anyone's salvation; God's purposes did (Acts 13: 48). Our faith ultimately resulted from God's purposes in salvation. This is why Scripture says we are saved by grace -- God's unmerited favor -- but that salvation is through faith. Faith is the instrument of salvation, while God is the cause of salvation. If God is the cause, then salvation ultimately rests in His purposes, not our faith. Although no one can possibly be saved apart from faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God, faith is never the procuring cause of salvation.

. . .can Christians cause themselves to be eternally lost? What if a believer's faith should fail? Several times we have cited God's promise, "If we are faithless he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself." Further, is faith itself meritorious? Not if faith itself is a gift (Romans 12:3; Ephesians 2:8,9). In truth, we are not saved because we have the saving virtue of faith, but we are saved through faith by the saving virtue of God. Further, complete loss of faith is only a theory. Given the stated purposes of God in the life of the believer, we do not think it a genuine possibility.

The fact is that believers will remain believers because of God's power directed in their behalf. . . .Believers may temporarily fail or perhaps even temporarily "cease" to believe, at least as far as outward appearances seem, but again, God's promises remain. Cannot the believer rebel and choose to be released from Christ and eternal salvation?

But remember that the human will never acts alone (Philippians 2:13; Ephesians 2:2), and that God has promised to keep His own. Further, who would honestly wish eternal doom? One who did so would certainly be insane, and God would obviously keep and provide for any of His dear children who lose their reason.

Most of those who say a believer can lose his salvation will concede that because of the death of Christ and the power of God, neither sin nor Satan can usually cause the loss of salvation. They agree that God promises the believer that if "we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9 NASB).

But they say that there is one condition that invariably will lead to loss of salvation, and that is when a believer forsakes the faith and finally apostatizes. But, again, they must admit that this is merely a hypothetical situation. No one can actually point to a person who was indisputably a true believer but then permanently apostatized. We simply don't have enough information about a person's heart to know whether or not he truly apostatized.

The Scriptures teach that the believer will persevere. Why? Not because of his own power or goodness, but because of the power and working of God. Extremely adverse circumstances in the life of a Christian may lead to temporary rebellion or even falling away or even denial of Christ (as was true with the apostle Peter), but this is not equal to apostasy and is typically healed with the passage of time.

Further, people who claim they were saved and then say they no longer believe, and this continues for years, were probably never saved in the first place. It is easy for someone to think he is saved when in fact he is not. Those who believe for a short time and then stop believing permanently until death were obviously never regenerated because the hallmarks and characterics of regeneration were not present.

The question in all this is really whether God will permit one of His own children, a child for whom Christ died on the cross, to finally apostatize. Biblically, the answer is clearly no. But theoretically, even if a regenerated person did apostatize, this could not nullify the eternal nature of those things already accomplished at the point of regeneration, such as eternal life, imputation, union with Christ, justification, etc. It is not a question of our own ability to keep ourselves saved, but of the ability and purpose of God to keep us saved and to persevere us. If our salvation were finally dependent on us keeping ourselves saved, would anyone ever be saved? We don't think so. Thus Scripture emphasizes the keeping power of God:

The Lord will protect you from all evil; He will keep your soul. The Lord will guard your going out and your coming in from this time forth and forever(Psalm 121:7,8 NASB).

Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, the name which Thou hast given Me, that they may be one, even as We are(Romans 17:11 NASB).

And stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand (Romans 14:4 NASB).

Who shall also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son (1 Corinthians 1:8,9 NASB).

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6 NASB).

The God who gives perserverance and encouragement (Romans 15:5 NASB).

[see also: Colossians 3:4; 2 Timothy 4:18; Hebrews 13:5; Jude 1:24; Luke 22:32]

Unfortunately, some Calvinistic theologians interpret the doctrine of perseverance in almost an Arminian fashion--that perseverance in faith and good works is the only guarantee of true regeneration. Therefore, a believer cannot know with certainity that he is regenerated until he has persevered until the point of death. Only until after he has been persevered--that is, maintained faith and good works throughout his life--can he know he is really saved in the first place. But this is not the gospel that guarantees the believer eternal life from the point of saving faith. The believer's trust is to be in God and His ability, not in one's own ability.

From: The Defenders: Knowing the Truth About Eternal Security; Harvest House Publishers

[Guest Calamity]

Thank you, Shiloh357, for posting that!

[Guest LadyC]

very nice. i'm sure i could find a dozen authoratative articles that totally contradict what that one says.

your article denies that it is possible for God to allow one to finally apostize. it says Biblically, no, it is impossible.

biblically, YES, it is possible. the author of that article chose to take specific scriptures out of context to the rest of God's word, that indicate unmistakably that one CAN turn from God.

i choose to base my belief on the entirety of God's word, not by someone's interpretation of a few scriptures while ignoring others.

the article also assumes that anyone who turns from God was only mistaken about their salvation in the first place. well, that directly contradicts God's word.

it also assumes that we don't really know, nor does the person who rejects God, whether he is truly apostized. apparently that person has never known anyone who spent years being on fire for God, and then for some reason rejected Him. it assumes that such people have just "lost faith" or "think they no longer believe". Those who reject him don't generally "lose faith" or "think they no longer believe"... they KNOW the truth, they DO believe, and yet they flat out DO NOT CARE about the truth.

sorry shiloh, but the article you posted is just someone's opinion, someone's interpretation, based on only a partial examination of feel-good scriptures.

is there some reason why this topic has to have three different threads?

this discussion as as fruitless as those about heretics. most people are going to see only what makes them comfortable... because a careful examination of the Bible as a whole is too uncomfortable for most to handle. for that reason, i think i'll bow out of these discussions. keep your feel good doctrine. as long as you keep that, and as long as i don't reject my salvation, i will still see you in heaven in the end. this discussion won't matter much then.

[Guest shiloh357]

sorry shiloh, but the article you posted is just someone's opinion, someone's interpretation, based on only a partial examination of feel-good scriptures.

Yes, and what you have posted is YOUR opinion, YOUR interpretation, based on only a partical examination of scriptures that you have selected. Why is it that when someone diagrees with you, it is nothing but "man's opinion," but your opinion is exalted as if it came from God? I have watched you take things out of context and pour into the scriptures what amounts to your "man made" interpretations.

Why not just engage specific points in the article to prove your point? It is one thing just to try to brush aside the arguments made with a bunch of limp wristed accusations, it is another to engage in meaningful and intelligent debate.

[Guest LadyC]

you were the one who said it took too much time and effort to read and address the long posts that had nothing but scripture after scripture after scripture where the Bible specifically and indisputably, without room for misinterpretation, discusses the danger of rejecting one's salvation. not me.

why not point out specific points in your article to debate? well why don't you pick out specific scriptures among the multitude that have been provided to you and argue your point against them? because you "didn't have time to read and address the long posts". at least i READ yours!

'nuff said, i'm withdrawing from this conversation. you're so intent on being "right" that you can't even be gracious enough to agree to disagree, which i've attempted on numerous occasions to do. you're more interested in disparaging others' intellegence and accusing them of making limp-wristed accusations. if i don't shut up now, i'm going to display a very unchristian attitude and suggest you take a look in your own mirror.

oops, too late, i didn't shut up soon enough. guess we're both guilty.

[Guest shiloh357]

well why don't you pick out specific scriptures among the multitude that have been provided to you and argue your point against them? because you "didn't have time to read and address the long posts".

I have done so on mulitple occasions, and instead of engaging all I get in repsonse is it is just man's opinion that I am "spouting." So, it does me no good to explain anything in depth. I do not have time to address every single word, but I have addressed multiple scriptures over many posts. I get very impatient when my ideas are dengrated as being nothing but "man's opinions" and worth nothing but to be trampled underfoot by your crowd, while your ideas are actually what the Bible says. My ideas are immediately rejected as a "doctine of demons" as someone has posted earlier. So, yeah you are going to raise my dander a bit when you come across that way. In that sense, you are not agreeing to disagree.

I did not say that you needed to address every point, just pick out a couple and engage them. Is that so much to ask?

I am not disparaging anyone's intelligence. I am saying that intelligent debate acutally engages the points made. It does not just haul off and say "Your wrong, because my view of the Bible is correct." Intelligent debate does not say "I am right because the Holy Spirit told me thus and so." That is what I get a lot. Instead of people actually admitting that they have an opinion, they try to pull the rug out under everyone's feet, by always blaming what they believe on the Holy Spirit. They denegrate other beliefs as if they could not possibly be from God. That is not intelligent debate; just a bunch wimpy arguments.

[Guest Calamity]

Why don't we start by discussing this one verse:

Romans 6:23-

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Any takers? Shiloh would you go first?

[SisterT-Enduring2TheEnd]

very nice. i'm sure i could find a dozen authoratative articles that totally contradict what that one says.

No need, my sister! I've got you covered!

Some Great Websites that combat this false doctrine:

Rebuttals & Refutations

Evangelical Outreach

Eternal Debate - Is Your Faith In Place?

Eternal Security - A BIBLICAL Perspective

AntiOSAS

Are We "Once Saved Always Saved"?

And some articles from some of them:

Common Arguments Used To Defend OSAS

Did Jesus Teach Eternal Security?

God's Gifts And Calling

I Never Knew You

The Eternal Security Of The Believer

Arguments Used To Support OSAS

Fifty Reasons Why A Saved Person Can NEVER Be Lost (And a Brief Rebuttal of Each Point!)

Faith Only & The Unpardonable Sin

Enjoy the links.

[SisterT-Enduring2TheEnd]

Now, who am I supposed to believe? John Ankerberg or the Spirit of God?

1 Timothy 4:1 KJV

(1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

I'll cast my lots with the Spirit of God.

[Guest shiloh357]

Romans 6:23 is a basic verse dealing with what is EARNED by sinning and what is given freely by grace through faith in Christ.

Wages are are earned. One earns the right to go to Hell, because of sin. Hell is what we deserve. God in His grace freely gives us salvation. It is a free gift. The gift is not taken from us when we sin, or when we lack faith. Otherwise, it is no longer a gift.

The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. It is not our faith that saves us. It is grace. That grace is expressed in the person of Christ. Faith is not the saving element. Grace is what saves us. Faith is the instrument through which we recieve that grace. If faith were the saving element, then if we walked away from our faith, we would walk away from salvation, and salvation could be lost in that manner. God is smarter than that. The New Covenant is based upon His grace, not our faith. The New Covenant is between Jesus and the Father. It is not between us and the Father. God is not in covenant with us, because such would be fruitless, and the plan of salvation would be a failure.

Eternal life is through Christ alone and not by our works or even our faith.