Rousing, emotional start for war protest

[nebula]

Let me respond by throwing a question back at you - since the "Christian" protest began in the National Cathedral . . .

When was the last time the Gospel was actually preached at the National Cathedral? (I was sure pulling my hair out at the nationally televised services from there when the bishop or whatever he's called didn't even speak the name of Jesus in prayer!)

I am not familiar with the National Cathedral so I will not comment on it. Second, I doubt everyone attending for the anti-war protest was a member of the National Cathedral. I refuse to judge people who I know nothing about. My point is that I can't imagine there being much debate about whether the Iraq War met the definition of a just war that has been a part of Christianity for centuries. Regardless of whether the protesters fit your definition of a Christian their beliefs about the Iraq War seem consistent with just war theory.

The claim was made that these protesters were doing God's work.

So, let me ask you this way - what is God's work?

Second question . . . what denominations do you believe are being represented on this Board?

I'm sure there are many denominations who have posters on this board. However, most seem to be American which will result in quite a bias in this case.

<snip>

Are you aware of any denomination that was/is officially for the Iraq War? If not then it seems that there is little debate on the matter in Christendom.

It sounds to me like you have judged us as being un-Christian.

[Arthur Durnan]

I love it, I love it, socialists & compatriots rioting in the streets and blocking public traffic and enterprise ala Paris minus realization that World War 3 has already commenced! They may know where a National Cathedral is, but they don't know what polygamist WarLord Muhammad's Qur'ah declares! Tragicomic. Islam is a philosophy spread by military conquest (ala Darfur, Mindanao, Bolo, Northern Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Iran, Iraq (Shia & Sunni ingloriously intertwined) with injunctions to Holy War throughout its basic Scriptures. So we rally to encourage them in their mass-homicide bombings, rape, plunder and genocide on behalf of "Allah," their Arabian Peninsula moon-god?! Rather than making an endless spectacle of oneself outside a National Cathedral and fast becoming a Niagara Falls of Mohammadanism, why not give some earnest consideration to the promotion of a public Book-Study outside the venerable N.C. re Ayaan Hirsi Ali's excellent volume, "The Caged Virgin: An Emancipation Proclamation For Women And Islam" or Robert Spencer's "The Politically Incorrect Guide To Islam," publications laying bare, with razor-sharp clarity, WarLord Muhammad's intention for a global Islamic Caliphate, which intention N.C. protester-types have yet to comprehend? More info too at

http://www.whyisitsoeasyforrealitytocompletelyelude them.com

GOD BLESS AMERICA! And Keep It Strong, Vigilant & Free.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Marnie]

No, the laws of God says do not murder.

Premeditated with malice is forbidden.

Actually you are mistaken. War is not murder. Many many times in the OT G-d commanded His people to kill in battle, but He never condoned murder. There are different Hebrew words at play here.

War can actually be a moral and honorable thing.

[Marnie]

I just think it's a sad day when "true Christians" advocate bloody conflict, while "non-christians" advocate peace.

I'm trying to find world-wide opinion polls of Christians regarding the Iraq War as I suspect this is mostly an American problem. While looking for such a poll I came across some other interesting articles.

According to this site the only Christian group to officially support the Iraq War in early 2003 (i.e., before the war started) was the Southern Baptist Convention. The Iraq War was opposed by the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, the Episcopal Church, the Greek Orthodox Church in America, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Quakers (American Friends Service Committee), the United Church of Christ, the United Methodist Church, and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

This article says that support for the Iraq War in America is strongest among non-black Protestants (55%). 77% of Jews oppose to the war in Iraq.

This is funny. All the denominations you cited that are opposed to the war are the most liberal in America. My former denom, the PC(USA) did NOT and does NOT speak for the average congregant. Also, I am suspicious of the poll regarding Jewish support for the war. Being a Jew, I believe I am best able to comment on this. Since Iraq/Iran are enemies of Israel, it's difficult to imagine many Jews opposed to the war against them. Of course, there is a large liberal Jewish population in America... I wouldn't put a lot of stock in polls coming out of beliefnet.com

[Oh Hamburgers!]

I love it, I love it, socialists & compatriots rioting in the streets and blocking public traffic and enterprise ala Paris minus realization that World War 3 has already commenced! They may know where a National Cathedral is, but they don't know what polygamist WarLord Muhammad's Qur'ah declares! Tragicomic. Islam is a philosophy spread by military conquest (ala Darfur, Mindanao, Bolo, Northern Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Iran, Iraq (Shia & Sunni ingloriously intertwined) with injunctions to Holy War throughout its basic Scriptures. So we rally to encourage them in their mass-homicide bombings, rape, plunder and genocide on behalf of "Allah," their Arabian Peninsula moon-god?! Rather than making an endless spectacle of oneself outside a National Cathedral and fast becoming a Niagara Falls of Mohammadanism, why not give some earnest consideration to the promotion of a public Book-Study outside the venerable N.C. re Ayaan Hirsi Ali's excellent volume, "The Caged Virgin: An Emancipation Proclamation For Women And Islam" or Robert Spencer's "The Politically Incorrect Guide To Islam," publications laying bare, with razor-sharp clarity, WarLord Muhammad's intention for a global Islamic Caliphate, which intention N.C. protester-types have yet to comprehend? More info too at

Islam is evil! Islam is demonic! Islam is the direct cause of middle-eastern conflicts! Islam will kill our children while we sleep at night! Islam is solely militaristic! All muslims are potential terrorists! Islam encourages rape, plunder and genocide!

And so what do we do? Us, kindly, God-fearing Christians? Us, the "good guys" in a world of evil? What do you advocate us, the righteous and holy ones, to do Arthur? Bomb the crap out of all Islamic countries? For the glory of God, right? L O L.

You do know what this rhetoric and propaganda sounds like, don't you?

[Leonard]

I'm finished here: I have told you the truth, but you have desired the anti-Christ lies instead. There only two kinds of people on the Left: Those who understand what they are doing, and are actively evil, and those who are duped BY the evil ones. So they are either 'filthy' or 'ignorant.'

Paul ran into the same sorts of people, and many simply WISHED TO REMAIN IGNORANT, so at length Paul gave up on them. I say with Paul: "He that is filthy, let him remain filthy still; he that is ignorant, let him remain ignorant still.'

It is incomprehensible to me that anyone who thinks he is a Christian, could side with Marx.

LET GOD ARISE, AND LET HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

I'm finished here: I have told you the truth, but you have desired the anti-Christ lies instead. There only two kinds of people on the Left: Those who understand what they are doing, and are actively evil, and those who are duped BY the evil ones. So they are either 'filthy' or 'ignorant.'

Paul ran into the same sorts of people, and many simply WISHED TO REMAIN IGNORANT, so at length Paul gave up on them. I say with Paul: "He that is filthy, let him remain filthy still; he that is ignorant, let him remain ignorant still.'

It is incomprehensible to me that anyone who thinks he is a Christian, could side with Marx.

LET GOD ARISE, AND LET HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED.

So because I don't agree with you, I am an evil/filthy/ignorant anti-Christ leftist who sides with Marx.

I gotta hand it to you Leonard, I have NEVER been called that before!

[Oh Hamburgers!]

So you are comparing overthrowing a ruthless dictator to overthrowing the Candadian government? I don't think there is anything Christian about the protestors and am glad they were thrown in jail. They were breaking the law and the D.C. police did their job.

If they were violating a law, I agree that they should have had to deal with authority. That is no question to me, if they were Christian or if they weren't. That isn't my arguement, my arguement is about supporting the troops vs supporting the war.

I was trying to show how you can support troops without supporting the cause. Many people here wouldn't support us invading Canada, would we? But I would still support the troops involved; I would want them to be safe.

That is why I made the comparison. I don't view the Iraq war as justified, therefore I don't support the war. I still however want to have our troops come back safe and sound.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

OK Ohhamburges. We have one area of agreement. Neither one of us want the U.S. to invade Canada. At the same time, the comparison is ridiculous. There were a lot of reasons for the overthrow of Sadaam. First of all, he broke the cease fire agreement from the first gulf war. Second, the intelligence not only in America, but in Europe and the U.N. concluded Sadaam had WMDs. Based on that intelligence, not only did Bush support sending troops, but there are numerous sound bites by liberal Democrats still being played on the radio showing they supported the military action as well. Hind site is 20-20. What is taking place now is peace keeping. What is being fought by liberals today is not us fighting a war, but us protecting innocent civilians in Iraq.

I don't want to get into an arguement about whether the war was just or not, because neither of us will be able to convince the other. I was just showing that you can support troops without supporting a war. If we went into Canada, would you support the war? Would you support the troops? I would answer that no, yes. That is what I mean, you can seperate the warriors from the war.

I also agree that many Democrats have been following public opinion; IE when the war was popular they agreed to it, and now that it isn't popular they are turning on Bush. I am not one of those democrats. I have always felt the war was unjust, and didn't like us going in in the first place. Afghanistan I was ok with, but not Iraq. I just want to make that distinction so I am not grouped up with people I don't agree with.

I also disagree with the push to withdraw troops immediatly. I have always felt that once we opened up the pandora's box we were obligated to close it up again. I think that for the safety of many Iraqi civilians we can't leave quite yet. But we need some sort of plan for withdrawl. I mean, the country has been 'democratic' for awhile now. It isn't safe, but Saddam's regieme has fallen. Huzzah, we won! But now we need to start taking people out of the country slowly, or at least finding a good way to establish security without pulling the last Jenga piece out from beneath Iraq's infrastructure. We can't stay there forever, we HAVE to give ultimate control of the country back to the Iraqis. And we need to start thinking about how that is going to happen without creating more problems. I agree, we need to maintain the peace. But how many troops do we need to do that exactly? I think we should be focusing more on diplomacy and government creation, and less on our military presense. Military is still important of course, and if the troops are understaffed today, I would agree with sending more in. But some sort of goal or timetable needs to be generated. Even a rough one.

[Arthur Durnan]

Let me get Oh,Cheeseburgers, er, sorry, Oh,Hamburgers for all: Oh, Hamburgers would wish the Naziis in World War 2 had overrun all of Europe, the Uk, Russia maybe, and ultimately America, yes? Are you STILL in favor of Naziism overrunning the USA? Why do you push illogic? The LOGICAL outcome of permitting WarLord Muhammad's Islamic Totalitarianism, Mass-Homicide Bombings, Genocide, Rape, Plunder, and Anti-Semitism Unlimited to continue without abatement is not different from your defense of America in 1939-45, or are you still not with us? Have you perused all 6,236 verses of Muhammad's violent Qur'an yet? Why stay outside the N.C. with only continuing illogic in your grasp? Hmm.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

I still don't hear you say it!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com