Oh Hamburgers! Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Let me get Oh,Cheeseburgers, er, sorry, Oh,Hamburgers for all: Oh, Hamburgers would wish the Naziis in World War 2 had overrun all of Europe, the Uk, Russia maybe, and ultimately America, yes? Are you STILL in favor of Naziism overrunning the USA? Why do you push illogic? Exactly, you pegged me 100% Oh sorry, you were serious. The LOGICAL outcome of permitting WarLord Muhammad's Islamic Totalitarianism, Mass-Homicide Bombings, Genocide, Rape, Plunder, and Anti-Semitism Unlimited to continue without abatement is not different from your defense of America in 1939-45, or are you still not with us? Have you perused all 6,236 verses of Muhammad's violent Qur'an yet? Why stay outside the N.C. with only continuing illogic in your grasp? Hmm. I swear you tack on another adjective everytime you mention Islam But to the point: I think your interpretation of this war is incorrect. We aren't waging war against Islam. If we were, we wouldn't be a peacekeeping force in Iraq, we would be bombing the entire middle east sans Israel. Is this what you want? Cause you know, there is no better way to spread the word of God than with carpet bombs! If this was a war against Islamic terrorism, we are in the wrong country. Afghanistan had Al Quaida. We kinda forgot about our main goal after 9/11, and drifted to Iraq it seems. But they aren't the same enemy. One held a regieme we didn't like, and one held the terrorist organization that hit our towers. Again, you do realize that we are in Iraq today to save muslim civilians from the mess we caused, right? We aren't exterminating them. I'm curious, what would you do if (God forbid ) you were supreme dictator of America concerning the middle east? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2007 For the people that say that the war itself isn't murder, what about the civilian deaths? How about the fact that at the very least, around 20 times more civilians have been killed in Iraq than were killed in 9/11? (Although thats a extremely conservative estimate, according to other figures it could be far, far higher.) How about the 2 million civilians that were displaced and forced to leave their homes to somewhere else within Iraq? How about the other 2 million or so that are refugees now, who've left the country? Would you be able to go up to every Iraqi family who has lost someone, or the 4 million who have lost their homes and say "I'm sorry about what happened, but your son/daughter/wife/husbands death is justified."? What about the 4 million people who were forced to flee? Might not be quite as severe a case, fleeing for your life instead of being killed outright, but two groups of 2 million might make that a bit harder. Y'know, talking to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 we are keeping peace for the civilians. sometimes that means being anything BUT peaceful with the terrorists and insurgents. this really isn't hard to figure out. look at it on a personal level. if a psychopath was stalking your family, routinely terrorizing them and causing bodily harm, would you not arm yourself to defend your family? would you hesitate to use deadly force if necessary to protect your loved ones? hey burning ember. first off, please show me where you got your stats that 20 times more iraqi civilians have died than americans who died in 9/11.... and please take the time to indicate how many of that number were killed accidentally by american troops and how many were killed by terrorist/insurgent acts. remember, numbers mean very little without proper context... and context is everything. second thing for you burning.... murder is intentional. i bet you can't put a number on how many innocents have been intentionally murdered by american troops, can ya? accidental casualties of war are not 'murder'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 oh and balance.... you may want to keep the NAME-CALLING to a minimum here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giaour Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 179 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,941 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1964 Share Posted March 19, 2007 No, the laws of God says do not murder. Premeditated with malice is forbidden. Actually you are mistaken. War is not murder. Many many times in the OT G-d commanded His people to kill in battle, but He never condoned murder. There are different Hebrew words at play here. War can actually be a moral and honorable thing. You must have misunderstood what I meant. The commandment was thou shalt not murder. If it was thou shalt not kill, then God would have been commanding us to sin. Since there are just reasons to kill, killing is not forbidden by God. Such as self defense, war, capital punishment etc. We are not to murder, which shows a premeditation and malice in our hearts. So war has nothing to do with the commandment "thou shall not murder". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted March 19, 2007 You must have misunderstood what I meant. The commandment was thou shalt not murder. If it was thou shalt not kill, then God would have been commanding us to sin. Since there are just reasons to kill, killing is not forbidden by God. Such as self defense, war, capital punishment etc. We are not to murder, which shows a premeditation and malice in our hearts. So war has nothing to do with the commandment "thou shall not murder". I agree that there can be just wars, but why do you feel that war has nothing to do with murder? There is premeditation of killing in war all the time. Soldiers are often told to dehumanize their enemies, so that they can kill without guilt. There are certaintly soldiers who kill with malice for their enemy, I mean, people have malice for the enemy today, right now in this thread. We are dehumanizing muslims so we don't feel so bad about killing them. No, there are things such as just wars, but that doesn't mean war in general doesn't have plenty of murder in it. Atrocities happen in every war, just or not. That doesn't make the atrocities justified. War is ugly, plain and simple. It should always be avoided until there are no other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted March 19, 2007 You must have misunderstood what I meant. The commandment was thou shalt not murder. If it was thou shalt not kill, then God would have been commanding us to sin. Since there are just reasons to kill, killing is not forbidden by God. Such as self defense, war, capital punishment etc. We are not to murder, which shows a premeditation and malice in our hearts. So war has nothing to do with the commandment "thou shall not murder". I agree that there can be just wars, but why do you feel that war has nothing to do with murder? There is premeditation of killing in war all the time. Soldiers are often told to dehumanize their enemies, so that they can kill without guilt. There are certaintly soldiers who kill with malice for their enemy, I mean, people have malice for the enemy today, right now in this thread. We are dehumanizing muslims so we don't feel so bad about killing them. No, there are things such as just wars, but that doesn't mean war in general doesn't have plenty of murder in it. Atrocities happen in every war, just or not. That doesn't make the atrocities justified. War is ugly, plain and simple. It should always be avoided until there are no other options. Thou shalt no kill means you shall not take it upon yourself to go kill somebody, it isn't talking about war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Two points I wanted to address from what I read here: 1. Why did we make protecting the oil wells a top priority? Because Saddam sent the word to his troops to blow as many as they could up just prior to the kick off of the Gulf war. He destroyed billions of dollars worth of wells and refineries in Kuwait before he was kicked out. The decision to protect them early in Iraqi Freedom was based on his past behavior. He did it, it was a real threat. Knowing that he was in his last days of power, Saddam was sure to target his own country's wells, which would have been devastating to the national economy, even more so than what was already to be damaged due to war operations. If the country was to ever have any hope to stand on it's own feet one day, the oil wells would have to be protected. That's what I call a no-brainer. 2. Contrary to popular opinion and a complete lack of knowledge of the subject, we are still fighting in Afghanistan. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted March 19, 2007 PS- I fully support the effort of some to oppose the war in open forums in public places. Just as long as no one does stupid things like spitting on Veterans, throwing nasty things on people, burning cars, etc. This is, after all, America! t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted March 19, 2007 2. Contrary to popular opinion and a complete lack of knowledge of the subject, we are still fighting in Afghanistan. t. I know we are still fighting in Afghanistan. We should have finished the job there. If we would have put the same emphasis on Afghanistan and the terrorists as we have on Iraq and the regieme, maybe we would have found Osama. I fully support the effort of some to oppose the war in open forums in public places. Just as long as no one does stupid things like spitting on Veterans, throwing nasty things on people, burning cars, etc. I completely agree. The way we treated Vietnam veterans was horrible. It wasn't their fault we were in the war, it was the governments. Again, I don't advocate hating on our troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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