Iryssa Posted May 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Being killed for your beliefs is martyrdom. THAT'S what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 16. Allowing yourself to be killed by some random criminal with no idea what your beliefs are isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Wow, this is a hot topic! You know I believe in self defense. I just don't think we should like it to much. Followers of Christ should abhor violence not like violence. When people think of the followers of Christ the first thing that comes to their mind shouldn't be those tough guys with guns over there, don't mess with them or look at them the wrong way they are all armed and ready to explode! I think it comes down to our attitude and our respect for human life and the human eternal soul. Yes we can take a life as a private citizen in self defense, but it better be the last last option. (In war or police work, all bets are off, we send these guys over there to kill and if they make a mistake it is not their fault, it is just the cost of war.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted May 2, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Wow, this is a hot topic! You know I believe in self defense. I just don't think we should like it to much. Followers of Christ should abhor violence not like violence. When people think of the followers of Christ the first thing that comes to their mind shouldn't be those tough guys with guns over there, don't mess with them or look at them the wrong way they are all armed and ready to explode! I think it comes down to our attitude and our respect for human life and the human eternal soul. Yes we can take a life as a private citizen in self defense, but it better be the last last option. (In war or police work, all bets are off, we send these guys over there to kill and if they make a mistake it is not their fault, it is just the cost of war.) Smalcald, And we aren't at war? try the meth dealers, and meth heads who will kill you for whatever you have just so they can sell it for 20 bucks to by a rock of meth. i have dealt with metheads, pcpheads, all kinds that are out to get what they can and don't care who they hurt to get it. i have seen a pcp addict take 5 38 slugs to the chest and still come at someone. Happened out in the pizza hut parking lot one night, he was wired up and he was out for blood. Nothing short of the bullet to the head stopped him. he was going to kill someone. Yeah were at war in our own backyards! I have moved twice due to drug dealers taking over neighborhoods, and i won't move again! this time i am staying put and fighting for what is mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted May 2, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Being killed for your beliefs is martyrdom. THAT'S what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 16. Allowing yourself to be killed by some random criminal with no idea what your beliefs are isn't. Here is a question for you. It is provocative but let it provoke thinking. What real christian would be killed by some random act by a criminal with no idea of his/her beliefs? Keep in mind that ALL THINGS work together for the good of those that love God and are called according to His purpose.(Rom. 8:28) LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted May 2, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted May 2, 2007 What real christian would be killed by some random act by a criminal with no idea of his/her beliefs? LT Several months ago, Cathrine johnston was murdered by 3 police officers bursting into her home. they shot over 100 rounds to take out a 98 year old christian woman. Her murderers are going to get off scott free with a plea deal from the DA, lessing the crime to manslaughter instead of Murder. They didn't know hwer beliefs, they didn't know the woman at all. They just broke down her door in the middle of the night guns blazing when she defended herself from what she thought was gang members trying to break in. The officers that murdered her tried to impune her character by planting dope in her home and making it look like she was a drug dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godsloft Posted May 2, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/24/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2007 This is how you are supposed to defend yourself in Christ. Put on the full armor of Christ and get ready for those lunatic idiots. Because it is those lunatic idiots that need to be saved "not you". Acts 7 54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, "Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!" 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not charge them with this sin." And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Stephen knew what it was to be Christ like. Would He have taken a life to save his own? Not hardly. That is not what his Lord and savior taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 2, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Like I said I don't think there is a spiritual issue for Christians to legitimately defend themselves from being killed or from their families being hurt or killed. But lethal force is well, lethal and permanent. We can do many many things to protect ourselves and in self-defense; before we are forced to kill somebody with a gun. For me, I don't want the gun option, there have been more times when I would have made a mistake than when it would have helped. Thus our family keeps the ammo and the guns separate and both put away. I feel very secure with the self-defense weapons we do have and I am comfortable using will work. Plus I do agree, the Lord will provide and guide us and protect us. But this is a personal choice and if someone does feel very very threatened or lives in an area, which is very dangerous, I do understand the need for gun protection. I just worry about the true safety and effectiveness of those guns and the real impact on a Christian of killing someone when they don't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtwo Posted May 2, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1978 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Being killed for your beliefs is martyrdom. THAT'S what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 16. Allowing yourself to be killed by some random criminal with no idea what your beliefs are isn't. Here is a question for you. It is provocative but let it provoke thinking. What real christian would be killed by some random act by a criminal with no idea of his/her beliefs? Keep in mind that ALL THINGS work together for the good of those that love God and are called according to His purpose.(Rom. 8:28) LT Really, isn't that a question for one of the forknowledge/predestination threads? I don't believe that God -causes- bad things to happen. Sometimes, thanks to the fallenness of our world and the evil that is rampant throughout, random evil happens. To suggest that someone who is randomly killed in this world isn't "Christian" enough is either naive or just ignorant. Sorry, Larry. I often agree with your posts, but certainly not here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 2, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 2, 2007 There have been many Christians who have had many many horrible bad things happen to them. Do all things work together for good? Yes they do, sometimes that means we get cancer and die, sometimes it means we lose our jobs, we can't see the end result of these things, but in the end, we have victory and the world sees that we are not impacted by the flesh, by the things which happen in the body, we have the good part, we have the spiritual victory which in the end is all that matters. All flesh is grass, it is al burned up in the end. (Of course we still have the right to defend ourselves ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheoMike Posted May 2, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/27/1964 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Yes self defense is indeed revenge. Using the rationalization of man to annul the teachings of Christ won't do you any good in what is coming up. Those who stand behind the armaments of man will find themselves fighting against the Power of God real soon. Matthew 10 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. Sorry, you are dead wrong on this. On your last point, verse 39 taken in context has to do with following Christ, it has nothing to do with self defense or physical violence. And on your first point revenge has nothing to do with self defense. You don't need a Bible for that point, all you need is a dictionary. I appreciate your passion on this point, but your arguments don't hold up. I am basically a non violent person, and would never start a fight, and would always try to resolve things in a peaceful manner, but if I was attacked, or my wife or even if I saw a stranger being attacked physically, you bet I would I help any way I could. How could you not in good conscious? How could any human being stand back and watch another human being being beaten up?? That is inexcusable cowardice, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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