Self Defense

[Eliyahuw]

Yes, you have a right to defend yourself when attacked.

The question is, how far do you take "self defense". Once defense becomes a first-strike offense situation is when it gets in a gray area.

no question about it, make sure the attacker is dead. thats how far you take it.

Dead man can't testify against you.

Shalom,

I guess you don't watch CSI.

Dead men can certainly testify against you!! It's called "evidence" !

CSI is uhmm Hollywood, fantasy.... its not real! i have been in a REAL CSI lab, and no the dead men cannot testify against you. Evidence could be used, but the last i checked, the consitution gives the accused the right to face and question their accuser.

I am a certified Crime Scene Technician. I can assure you That I can tell just about everything about most shootings from what is left. I can tell the distance fired. Where the shot was fired from, exactly where the person was when hit etc. If you want to mess the techs up. Use Frangible ammo. I did not tell you that.

Well hr i wasn't going to tell folks that you could mess it up.

[Iryssa]

Being killed for your beliefs is martyrdom. THAT'S what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 16.

Allowing yourself to be killed by some random criminal with no idea what your beliefs are isn't.

Here is a question for you. It is provocative but let it provoke thinking.

What real christian would be killed by some random act by a criminal with no idea of his/her beliefs?

Keep in mind that ALL THINGS work together for the good of those that love God and are called according to His purpose.(Rom. 8:28)

LT

Yeah, that's getting a little too close to prosperity theology for me.

I have known many DEVOTED, good-hearted Christians who have suffered things like

- Rape

- Armed robbery

- The loss of a child (sometimes even several children)

- Severe beating

Seriously, you can't tell me that bad things (yes, that includes getting killed by some random criminal) don't happen to devoted followers of Christ. That's just not realistic.

[Godsloft]

So what is the bottom line of self defence in Christ Jesus. If you want to defend your self then It has to be by faith in God. Any other Choice will return upon your own head unless you repent. How did Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego defend themselves against evil. How did Daniel defend Himself against the Lions. How did Elijah defend himself from the armies of the wicked? Now Christ has come and showed you the way by example. The Just shall live by faith but the wicked will murder each other.

The morning is about to dawn an on that day the faith of all will be tested.

Hebrews 10

38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."

1 Peter 1

7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

1 Corinthians 3

11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.

14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.

15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

[rtwo]

Still pondering this myself. What do you guys think?

And remember SELF defense. I'm not talking about defending anyone else.

Based on the answer, I would have to change my mind on a lot of things. It's a serios thing, don't you think?

This is something I've thought a lot about. There was a group of missionaries (I think it was the group that "End of the SPear" was based on) who brought rifles for the sake of hunting, but not for defense. As one told his wife, he was prepared for death and eternity, while those to whom he was going to speak were not.

I believe this same attitude ought to be taken when it comes to self defense. My soul is prepared, and death is not a threat to me... but my killing of another to save my own life -will- condemn him, if he isn't saved (and I think it's safe to assume, if you are in a position where "self defense" is an option, he probably isn't). And let's not forget the words of Jesus: "whoever would save his life will lose it..."

Having said that, I do draw distinction between this and home and family defense, as well as national defense. I think every American citizen ought to own a gun, and be willing to fight to defend his family and his neigbors.

WhaT??? Are you nuts! If someone wants to attack me and try to kill me, he's going to be taking the great celestial dirt nap before he realizes it. IF he isn't prepared to meet God then thats his problem. I have family that depends on me being alive and i am not going to be the one whos dying for a lowlife scumbag

I can understand that; but I can't help but feel grateful Jesus didn't have the same attitude.

You are forgetting that Jesus did escape death until it was the time appointed Him by His Father. He supernaturally defended himself.

But ultimately, He did die for a bunch of low-lfie scumbags.

[Smalcald]

What is more effective for personal defense than a firearm? In extreme close quarters combat the long edge weapon does have a slight nod against a firearm, but other than that what is better than a firearm for self defense? Nothing. Not O.C., not Mace, not a tazer. They come no where close in comparison to a firearm in the hands of a properly trained person. If someone breaks into my home while I am in it, they will discover just how effective a CZ-P01 can be. I can promise you with 100% confidence I will come out on top. It is not going to be a gunfight. It will be an ambush. I do not fight fair, I fight to stay alive. Someone breaks in my house, they will most likely wake up in Hell. That might be cold, but if they wish to stay alive they will not threaten my family in my home. In my opinion if a man stood by and did not defend his family against attack he is completely ungodly and worthless. I could not imagine standing by and letting someone hurt a family member of mine.

Anyone who has enough skills to hit a man sized target at 10 ft and is willing to pull the trigger should be quite able to prevail against an intruder. Ambush, do not announce and put yourself on a lever playing field with the intruder. Ambush him. You will win.

I know what you are saying. However, what is more effective for the ultimate national defense than a nuclear bomb? Yet how often do we use it?

The thing is with a gun you are going to end someone's life, it is like jumping to the last resort right away. Some people cannot handle that sort of responsibility, most people are not really trained properly and most are sure not trained in killing someone. Even in law enforcement, a policeman who kills a person, even the most rotten evil person, if you talk to them it is not something that they wanted to do, it impacts them deeply, and that is a good thing that we are reticent about killing another human being, not a bad thing.

It is a very hard judgement call in my opinion to know when to kill someone or not, and because of that I will choose admittedly slightly less lethal forms of self defense than a gun, but I think because I don't worry about blowing someone's brains out by mistake, I actually use them more effectively and with more confidence.

I know I posted this earlier but the one time when I did have a break-in, my dog and my bat worked very effectively, and I am thankful to this day that I didn't reach for my gun and kill that young man. I can say that if I would have had my shotgun available and loaded I probably would have used it at that time and praise God that I do not have that on my soul today, so in that regard yes all things work together for good.

[Smalcald]

Well neither did Christ condemn the soldier's who He ministered to. He did not tell the Roman Centurion who believed to quite being a centurion, He said your faith has saved your servant.

[Guest LadyC]

larry, by your question i'm assuming that you are implying that it is impossible for a true christian to be a victim of murder? is that really what you're saying? more sitting from your perch and judging another's salvation again?

Why is it that you read so much into the question I posted?

You must think that Paul was sitting on a perch judging anothers salvation also. Here's what he said.

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

You really have me all wrong. My only purpose is to exhort those that think they are christians to examine themselves. To make sure they are christians. And examine themselves by God's word and God's word alone. It will be a sorry day for many when Jesus says "I never knew you" to many that think they are believers.

Is it not better to err on the side of caution? Should not we all approach the throne with fear and trembling even though we are commanded to come boldly?

LT

YOU said: What real christian would be killed by some random act by a criminal with no idea of his/her beliefs?

by that you are SPECIFICALLY implying that no true Christian would ever be killed by some random act of a criminal who has no idea of their beliefs. THAT is the hieght of arrogance.

and you continue taking scripture and twisting it to suit yourself. paul was in NO way saying that if we defend ourselves against a senseless murder that we are reprobates.

where do you GET this stuff?

yes, there will be many whom God says He never knew on judgement day. but it is YOUR judgemental assumption that He is referring to anyone who defended their life against a criminal.

[Godsloft]

So what is the bottom line of self defence in Christ Jesus. If you want to defend your self then It has to be by faith in God. Any other Choice will return upon your own head unless you repent. How did Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego defend themselves against evil. How did Daniel defend Himself against the Lions. How did Elijah defend himself from the armies of the wicked? Now Christ has come and showed you the way by example. The Just shall live by faith but the wicked will murder each other.

The morning is about to dawn an on that day the faith of all will be tested.

Hebrews 10

38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."

1 Peter 1

7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

1 Corinthians 3

11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.

14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.

15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Well neither did Christ condemn the soldier's who He ministered to. He did not tell the Roman Centurion who believed to quite being a centurion, He said your faith has saved your servant.

The Centurion Had fiath that moved Christ to heal his servant. But no where does it say that the centurion or his servant were saved.

[firehill]

What real christian would be killed by some random act by a criminal with no idea of his/her beliefs?

LT

Several months ago, Cathrine johnston was murdered by 3 police officers bursting into her home. they shot over 100 rounds to take out a 98 year old christian woman.

Her murderers are going to get off scott free with a plea deal from the DA, lessing the crime to manslaughter instead of Murder.

They didn't know hwer beliefs, they didn't know the woman at all. They just broke down her door in the middle of the night guns blazing when she defended herself from what she thought was gang members trying to break in.

The officers that murdered her tried to impune her character by planting dope in her home and making it look like she was a drug dealer.

All I have to base my response on is your rendition of the event but if it is accurate it proves Christ's statement that "for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

I believe God's word and can only conclude if she had not defended herself she might not have died. If she truly was a believer she is with the Lord now though.

LT

The verse you are using is being taken out of context. If your interpretation were true then every single action of self defense in all of history and the future to come would end in death without miss.

[larryt]

Still pondering this myself. What do you guys think?

And remember SELF defense. I'm not talking about defending anyone else.

Based on the answer, I would have to change my mind on a lot of things. It's a serios thing, don't you think?

This is something I've thought a lot about. There was a group of missionaries (I think it was the group that "End of the SPear" was based on) who brought rifles for the sake of hunting, but not for defense. As one told his wife, he was prepared for death and eternity, while those to whom he was going to speak were not.

I believe this same attitude ought to be taken when it comes to self defense. My soul is prepared, and death is not a threat to me... but my killing of another to save my own life -will- condemn him, if he isn't saved (and I think it's safe to assume, if you are in a position where "self defense" is an option, he probably isn't). And let's not forget the words of Jesus: "whoever would save his life will lose it..."

Having said that, I do draw distinction between this and home and family defense, as well as national defense. I think every American citizen ought to own a gun, and be willing to fight to defend his family and his neigbors.

WhaT??? Are you nuts! If someone wants to attack me and try to kill me, he's going to be taking the great celestial dirt nap before he realizes it. IF he isn't prepared to meet God then thats his problem. I have family that depends on me being alive and i am not going to be the one whos dying for a lowlife scumbag

I can understand that; but I can't help but feel grateful Jesus didn't have the same attitude.

You are forgetting that Jesus did escape death until it was the time appointed Him by His Father. He supernaturally defended himself.

And if one is really IN CHRIST will not Christ supernaturally defend us? He has on numerous occasions in my life.

LT

What scripture do most people who believe as you stand on? 99% of the belief is based on Psalm 91. Some of the best scholars believe David wrote this Psalm while others say it was Moses. Either way, David was a mighty warrior who bore the Sword against his enemies. God empowered David, but David did the killing. Moses on the other hand did not do direct combat, but he commanded military action. Honestly, I do not see how anyone who believes Psalm 91 could believe God provides this protection and requires no action on our part. Come on, Even Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, etc. (the main teachers of divine protection) travel with security teams.

If you throw common sense out the window, bad things happen. Does God not use men to do his work? Divine protection can come in the form of a security team if you have enough smarts to use one. Sure, there have been cases when God works miraculous intervention. However, I do not believe you can put yourself in stupid situations and expect divine protection.

Hi hrjr,

Actually it is Rom. 8:28. Everything that happens to me is for my good. I love God and am called according to His purpose. David's war was against physical enemies. Paul tells us that our war is NOT against the physical but against the unseen spiritual enemies. The way David fought against the physical we are to fight against the spiritual. Copeland, Hinn and the bunch are false teachers/heretics. I'm not saying I can avoid trials and tribulation, but that God is using those things to conform me to Christ. And the way I react to them shows how much I am truly walking in the spirit. If I am walking in the spirit then god will show me what I need to know.

LT