Guest boochie Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 I decided to create a new posting after reading up on Biscuits situation ("Is Deliverance Ministry Out-Dated?"). There is really only a few things I can comment on here that didn't fit in my initial post there. As far as the question of recieving ministry from others in addition to oneself. Self-Deliverance can be effective for those who feel lead to engage in it by the Spirit. But in most cases, there are far more advantages to seeking help and support from others who can use their experience and perspective to help you sort through the problem (If you are alone and without options then self-d is better than nothing--if needed). It is very scriptural to seek help and support from your bretheren and be open, humble, and honest with them. Getting things out and leaning on each other can bring so many blessings and its usually essential in reaching true and lasting freedom. A counselling format with two counsellors can work really well (one man & one women, or two of counselee 's same gender). Then there is one to intercede and support, and one to talk and lead. Accusations or crush's can be easier avoided when there are 3 people together instead if an intimate one on one session. Accountability is huge, and always dealing with deep issues on your own or with your buddy isn't exactly the most accountable road to take. There are no definite wrong methods, but some are smarter than others. Either way, everything must come under the Spirits direction. I would also keep any dialogue with demons to a minimum (if any). Yeshua's situation with Legion seems to me an exception rather than a rule. The Holy Spirit has the last say always, so be ready for anything. But talking to demons as a method leaves much room for error. With Yeshua's power and authority, we can accomplish great things (telling demons to leave just one of many). But we must remember that we are dealing with ancient fallen angels who have much more knowledge and are superior beings than us on our own (they've been decieving mankind for ages now-- they're skilled at it). So making them talk can be playing into their hands, or at least delaying their defeat. Bind them down, let the person talk if possible, and always listen to your captain -- The Holy Spirit. He'll tell you its name and how long its been there soon enough if it even matters. Lastly, I would hate to think that anyone would consider medicating someone as a final or lasting solution. God's heart is to see his children restored. Completely set free no matter what the case. I have seen and heard of even diagnosed Schizophrenics being completely healed and restored. Its available to all, not just a few. I believe medication can be a small blessing to those who have no options and honestly don't know any better. But saying that for some people meds are the only way to a normal life? I can't see it in scripture. Medical break throughs, pain killers, medications, all are a gift of God's mercy. But only for the faithless and ignorant (which most of us are at some level, myself included). Any disease, sickness, or condition of the body or mind can be healed. Its not God's plan for you to be that way, he has given us the keys to walk away from these things. Some of us are gluttons, we get sick as the enemy uses his right to attack our bodies. Sometimes God intervenes, sometimes he does not. Often times he wants us to seek him, use some common sense, and look for the root cause. We live in a fallen world where sickness, viruses, and plagues are everywhere as a result of man's past and present sin. New ones keep popping up. Again, the problem is with the heart of man. The enemy rejoices with the growth of sickness and disease. More toys for him to play with. More weapons with which to work against humanity. If we get sick, we must search ourselves for past sin and subsequent bad habits like eating poorly and not getting enough exercise or sleep. If we walk away from God's design for us, we give the enemy the right to attack and kill. Stress, anxiety, worry, all of it is fear and lack of faith, and it kills. Search for the times when unbelief first entered your life. Find the memories that started you believing the enemy's lies as truth. It may hurt, but God's truth is too awesome a cure not to pursue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journey Posted June 18, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 582 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/19/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1970 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Medical break throughs, pain killers, medications, all are a gift of God's mercy. But only for the faithless and ignorant (which most of us are at some level, myself included). Boochie, Statements that have no scriptural support and make you sound ignorant and dumb. I think its time believers learn good biblical exegesis skills, read their Bibles, and open their eyes to the world around them. If God truly gifted a believer with the gift of healing today then its time they put it to use. Go to Texas Children's Hospital in Houston, TX and heal those precious little children suffering from cancer. They are innocent angels who are neither faithless nor ignorant. If you really have the gift of healing and do not do so makes you a monster. - Dr. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boochie Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Wow. I really hit a nerve! Well, you were quite "strong" with your reply "Dr. Steve", so I in turn will be equally as strong but will choose to not be offended. Bless you for your response. We must weigh and test all things shared and spoken. I already said I was ignorant. Whether I'm dumb or not is not the issue here. The issue is once again with the heart of man. Do we not, as Christian's, all have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Was not the authority of Yeshua passed on to us? Do we not all have the potential in us to release God's healing to someone? Yes, of course we do. And nowhere in scripture does it say "well, if God doesn't heal you then turn to your own strength or use the earth's healing powers to help you." Science is man. Doctors are men. Without Holy Spirit direction or intervention, medical science is not from God. God can use science, doctors, medication to help people. But His hope is that we will not lean on our own strength and reasoning but on his power and love for us. Anytime I compulsively lock my doors and windows, take a pill, or worry about the future, I feel like I'm denying God's outstretched hand. He wants us to not fear but to depend totally on Him, and trust Him as He protects us. Where is your faith? The faith that comes by knowing Him on a deep level? I sometimes wish I could reason like you do and live in that "little box" but It makes me feel sick(no pun intended) to miss out on what he offers to us all. You make a very proud sounding statement : "I think its time believers learn good biblical exegesis skills, read their Bibles, and open their eyes to the world around them." Did this come from the Spirit? Or just from your pride? I am not lashing out at you, but hoping to challenge you out of this mindset you are in. You are a brother in Christ, and I care about you. I don't have it all figured out, I am not boasting that I understand all of scripture. But I can't deny that which God has challenged us all with. I have seen healings, God does it. Its not up to me who he heals spontaneously and who he doesn't. I don't believe it necessary at this point to start posting all the scriptures that talk about healing (I can if asked). But deeper healing is available to all if the root of sin and sickness can be pulled out. The bible doesn't say that we are born without sin. That we, as children, are all little angels being mercilessly targeted by an uncaring God or a dying world. All of us are born under the veil of sin and the darkness of this world. If anything, children are more susceptible to believing the enemies lies than we are. None of us as adults can comprehend being abused, but how much more is a child destroyed by such acts? They become weak in their innocence and ignorance. Faith can be strong in kids, but if one is raped or beaten, what then? Their child-like faith is almost always squashed. Those children in Texas could bare curses inherited by their forefathers. Its a snowball effect -- Generational sin effects us Spiritually and Physically. I've seen these curses and generational connections broken by Yeshua's authority and sickness leaves immediately! If you want scripture regarding the sins of our fathers, read the 10 Commandments (Ex 20:5). or Ex 34:7 "keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the childrens children to the third and fourth generation." We can be free from this law, just like all the rest, but sin must be confessed and the cross must be applied, just like everything else. Those kids don't deserve cancer more than others, but there must be a root that the enemy can use to operate. Somewhere, in our hearts, we all begin to believe Satan's lies as truth. Then the enemy can come and use the sin of unbelief as an entry point for curses, generational connections, or ungodly relationship connections (soul-ties), etc. I will take more time in the future to expand on this stuff and give more scriptures if asked. But I wanted to respond promptly to this mindset of bondage. No Doc, I don't think we are all monsters. But we are all grossly insecure. Many of us lack the faith to exercise the gifts and set people free. But God comes and helps the ignorant (me/us), and shows us the keys in scripture in which to unlock every iniquity that exists in this fallen world. Doctors are bang on when they make reference to genetics or hereditary conditions. Disease gets passed on not only physically, but spiritually. Those kids can't escape their forefathers sin if God has allowed it to pass on (or they have allowed their hearts to turn from God's truth giving the enemy the right to destroy). But they can be free when the Spirit says its time and someone is there to answer. We must open our hearts to Him, and let Him expose the sinful roots that exist in the hidden dark places. Open your hearts, He's wants them more than He could ever want our minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journey Posted June 19, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 582 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/19/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1970 Share Posted June 19, 2003 boochie, You didn't hit a nerve you just insult many warriors that I have seen the Lord call home. Very few "name it and claim its" ever think through their theology. They claim its the spirit and plod on in blissful spiritual ignorance. Heal some children with cancer and then we'll talk. - Steve P.S. The Master has some issues with your above stated philosophy and would like to speak with you immediately. Please open your Bible to the Apostle John's gospel chapter 9 and begin reading at verse one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted June 19, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2003 Boochie: I would love to embrace what you're saying...I struggle with physical illness daily. I look very healthy but suffer from severe fatigue. Daily functioning is difficult. I get tired just making supper. Shopping for groceries leaves me exhausted. I have to rest often. The doctors have done all they know to do. They don't really know what's wrong. Some say it's Lupus; some say it's Palandromic Rheumatism; some say it's Chronic Fatigue. They put me on Plaquenil...and keep raising the doses...to no avail. I've tried praying and praying and begging and begging...still no healing comes. I tried doctors...no healing comes...so what's the answer? God is so faithful to answer my prayers but healing...? Nothing. So, I don't have much confidence in doctors and have resigned myself to accepting this curse. I am a strong, bible-believing, born-again, in-love-with-Jesus believer...and totally covered by the Blood...but still...no healing comes. So, what hope is there for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journey Posted June 19, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 582 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/19/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1970 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Cat, The letter from James gives us great insight into suffering. It takes life and reduces it down to the things that really matter. I pray with you for healing. I have seen God do miraculous healings. Sometimes He answers with healing. Sometimes He says my Grace is sufficient for you. Booch, Let me just quickly respond to your question about my pride. Poor exegesis is epidemic in the Church. You committed a classical error in exegesis by applying to the Church a promise made to Israel. This is done universally by those who preach that God promises we can all be healthy, wealthy and wise. Israel was promised that if they kept the law God would pour out blessings of wealth and health. If they did not they would be under a curse. Well, the Church is not Israel. We exist under a different covenant. I have some questions for you? How old are you? You are undoubtedly young for its tough being an old charismatic. They get sick and come to the ER just as often as Baptists and Catholics. Open your mouth and look in the mirror. Do you see any fillings? Were these because of your sin or those of your father? Do you get immunizations? I could go on and on. If you answer yes then you are inconsistent with your stated theology. Just some food for thought. - Dr. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted June 19, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2003 Steve: I think I know what Boochie is talking about...There appears to be more than one reason why people suffer in their bodies... God's Own Glory: The disciples asked Jesus if a crippled man was suffering because of his sins or that of his parents. Jesus explained that it was for God's own glory.... to demonstrate His goodness and grace. Consequences for Sinning: David had a newborn son die as a consequence of his affair with Bathsheeba. Generational Curses: Deuteronomy teaches God's judgement on future generations. Persecution: Some suffer physically due to mistreatment by others for the sake of the gospel. Testing: God tests our responses to various events such as He did with Job. I don't think there's a standard, one-size-fits-all reason why people suffer in their bodies. Even Paul was afflicted...and was told that God's grace was enough.. Oh, and then there's Ananais and Saphira...they lied against the Holy Spirit and dropped dead on a dime. Game over. People can debate the issue but it's settled in my mind... People with always suffer but the root of their affliction remains a mystery...known only by God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusson Posted June 19, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 436 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/06/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/08/1971 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Hey everyone. With all do respect I do not want to hurt anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journey Posted June 19, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 582 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/19/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1970 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I agree Cats!!! Suffering is a part of this sinful world. God can heal and bring glory to himself. We must pray that His will be done. Sometimes that means His answer is to walk with Him through that suffering. - Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journey Posted June 19, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 582 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/19/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1970 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Hey everyone. With all do respect I do not want to hurt anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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