All Israel will be saved!

[Guest]

Rather I was questioning and offering, for what it's worth, my understanding. Please forgive me if I have misunderstood.

Ruth, You Are Loved And Respected At Worthy.

The Little Discussion You Are Seeing Is Between Folks.

Folks Who Know Jesus Will Faithfully Restore His Beloved Israel.

Folks Who Know Jesus Will Not Restore Israel Because They Understand The Church Is Israel.

This Replacement Stuff Is A New And Strange Thing To Me.

I'm A Simple Fellow And I Believe What The Bible Tells Me.

When Folks Change The Clear Meaning Of The Words In God's Holy Bible, I Do Not Understand Why.

If God Was Going The Say Something Else, I Believe He Could Have Found The Words To Do So.

God's Intentions To Restore His Beloved Israel Are Repeated So Many Times Throughout His Holy Word I'm Always Dumbfounded When I Find Folks Who Seem To Miss It.

I Don't Think All Folks Are Burdened With A Need To Hold Israel Up But I'm Puzzled When A Christian Appears Indifferent Or Even Hostile Toward Her.

When I Was Younger I Would Judge A Country I Was In, Like Turkey, On The Way They Treated Their Woman And Children.

I Would Measure Believers By Their Love Or Hatred Of The Jew.

Even Now If I Find A Fellow Who Names The Name Of Jesus And Hates The Jew I Watch My Back.

Now I Stomp Down On Most Judging!

I Replace It With Prayer For God's Love And For The Preservation Of The Believer.

I Thank And I Praise God For All My Family In Jesus.

I Pray For God's Salvation Of The Unbeliever.

The Joys Of The End Times.

I Know The Holy Spirit Is Even Now Blowing Throughout The Land Of Israel and Ismael.

I Am Overjoyed To See This Within My Lifetime.

I Am Blessed

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.

Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;

Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

Job 14:7-9

Hosanna Lord, Hosanna!

Maranatha!

Hallelujah!

Ruth, In The Last Twenty-five Years Or So God Just Flat Broke My Heart For His Israel.

The Murder And Mayhem Israel Will Endure Before Her Messiah Returns Has Brought Me To Tears And Sorrow And Anger And Prayer And, Finally, To Worthy.

Dear Sister I still weep As I Read These And Other Scriptures Of The Suffering Ahead For Israel.

Come Quickly Lord Jesus, Come Quickly

For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.

Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompence me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;

Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:

The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border.

Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head:

And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.

Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:

Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

[

Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dweller in Zion.

Joel 3:1-21

Hosanna Lord, Hosanna!

Maranatha!

Hallelujah!

Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[methinkshe]

Rather I was questioning and offering, for what it's worth, my understanding. Please forgive me if I have misunderstood.

Ruth, You Are Loved And Respected At Worthy.

The Little Discussion You Are Seeing Is Between Folks.

Folks Who Know Jesus Will Faithfully Restore His Beloved Israel.

Folks Who Know Jesus Will Not Restore Israel Because They Understand The Church Is Israel.

Love, Joe

Dear Brother Joe,

Thank you for your kind commendation in Jesus.

I think I am somewhere in between those who believe God will restore Israel, full stop, and those who believe Israel has been replaced by the church. I believe that God is always faithful to His promises and it was FAITH that God counted to Abraham as righteousness, and it was FAITH that made Jacob acceptable and Esau not, and it is FAITH that will bring the literal nation of Israel into glorious restoration at the time of the fulfilment of the Gentiles. But without faith in Jesus Christ, Messiah, Saviour, whether they be Jewish or not, every man on this earth is lost and in danger of everlasting separation from God - which is hell.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[Guest]

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."

1 Corinthians 2:2

But without faith in Jesus Christ, Messiah, Saviour, whether they be Jewish or not, every man on this earth is lost and in danger of everlasting separation from God - which is hell.

Amen!

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

No Buts About it Ruth!

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:11-15

God Does Not Lie

It Is Promised!

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.

And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

Jeremiah 31:31-40

And Promised!

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 8:8-13

I Pray These Scriptures Help Show Our Lord's Intentions Toward His Beloved Israel.

They Are Crystal Clear To Me.

Be Blessed Beloved Of The King.

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[nanasimmons]

'shiloh357'

That's interesting because I never said that. Please copy, paste and or post a link where I said anything like that, or withdraw that false charge. Nana, if you are going to debate with me, you could at least possesss enough Christ-like integrity to properly represent my position, and not attribute values to my position that I did not express. Am I asking too much from you?

My intent is not to debate with you........The only thing debating you accomplishes is; any one who disagrees with your(one of several), dispensation of hermenutics, is have my intelligents,my motives and my Chist-likeness attacked and judged, by you.....This is so typical of you, as shown below...............

Your position has real bibliclal foundation and relies on sloppy theology, not to mention that your interpertation results in a very unchrist-like spirit from you that includes bearing false witness against me. The fact that you feel you have to resort to attributing false statements to my arguments as I mentioned above, only highlights how bankrupt your postion really is.

"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called My son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1..."When he arose, he took the young child and His mother by night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called My Son." Matt. 2:14,15

What I am saying is that any one who is not in The Body Of Christ are not children of God....If we are in The Body of Christ then we are God's children, and Abraham's children.......

Whether or not the Jews are the chosen people has nothing to do with Millennium, or salvation. "Chosen" does not equal "saved."

The New Testament nowhere says that the Jewish people are no longer the descendents or seed of Abraham. YOU have it set in your mind that it has to be "either/or."

I do not as you falsely accuse me, say that the Jewish seeds according to the flesh are not Abraham seeds........What I said was that Jesus said that just because those Jesus haters in John 8, were seeds, it did not mean that they were Abraham's CHILDREN.....A servant does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever....... You fail to even acknowledge the difference between 'seed'v.'children' or 'servant'v. 'son'.........Galaitians 4:1-7

I have not and will not make broad statements about all Jews not being children of Abraham and God...as you falsely accuse me of doing..repeatedly........I am not so blind that I cannot see the clear distinction in scriptures....

You have it set in your mind that only Christians can be Abraham's seed, and that is not a position the New Testament takes.

"CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON"........." FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN.." Gal.4:21-31

Those who are not BORN-AGAIN/BORN OF GOD/AS ISAAC WAS(children of promise), are Ismael,(children born of the flesh not the children of promise..)Jew or Gentile..

YOU reject the Jews, YOU cast off the Jews, and you are trying to read your "theology" into the New Testament. You are trying to make the Bible line up with YOUR rejection of the Jewish peopple as the chsoen people and the seed of Abraham.

Talk about false witnessing!!! As I said above, I am not the one making broad statements about Jews..This is a false label you are pinning on me to make me look like a Jew hating racist....Pure slander....I do not hate anyone..

I am not in a position to reject or cast off anyone.......God is the one who casts off those who reject his Son....and He alone knows those who belong to Christ........

God made an eternal covenant with Abraham and his physical descendents and He reiterates this over and over again in Scripture, and you are trying to say this eternal covenant is null and void.

I know that God made an eternal covenant with Abra'ham'(father of many nations) and all his seed...and...Sar'ah' is the mother of us all...Gen. 17; Rom.4; Gal.3,4; Eph.2,3.......

This highlights why it is near impossible to reach Jews for Christ. Christians have such an arrogance; such an attitude that looks at Jews like they are dirt, but yet people wonder why they reject Christ. Christians castigate the Jews for their unbelief, and in doing so foment a spiritually antagonistic environment that makes it impossible for Jews to receive Christ.

I do not see how you can say I am treating anyone like dirt....If claiming what the Bible says about ALL those who reject the Son of God, is true/truth..................

God saves!! Not people....We are all responsible for our own relationships with God and answering Him when He calls....

Jesus makes it clear in John 8, that one can be a natural seed of Abraham....and not a child of Abraham or a child of God....but a child of the devil..... In Romans 4 Paul spells out that the chosen gentiles have always been considered to be Abraham's seeds....The promise might be sure to all the seed:.....

Try reading the passage a little closer. When Jesus called his audience "children of the devil," He was not referring to the Jewish people en masse.

Duhhhhhhh...I never said He was speaking to the Jews a whole....That was you false witnessing against me again.....He was talking to the Jews who were hating,denying who He was, and rejecting Him....and is talking about Jews/Gentiles who who hate,deny who He is and reject Him to their last dying breath, from then to the end of the "Today is the Day of Salvation', era............

If someone disagrees with US "policy" and they criticize the US on this or that, are they criticizing every American? No, they are criticizing our government. "US" can be understood in a limited fashion to exclude the common citizen. That is the understanding that needs to be applied to John, especially in chapter 8. That is why we need hermeneutics. Basic interpretation skills would avoid such nonsense as implying that Jews, or ANYONE for that matter are "children of the devil." Again, calling people "children of the devil" does not promote an environment where they would be willing or open to hearing the gospel. What you have demonstrate is a very irresponsible and counter-productive approach where the preaching of the gospel is concerned.

I think it is a far stretch to say that John 8 only applies to the pharisees of His day.......There are many other scriptures that speak of Christ's enemies........It is not just based on race, or leadership positions either.......If you think that by Jesus telling people that their father is the devil...was irresponsible and counter-productive and would make someone unwilling or open to hearing the gospel..Take it up with Him.......He said it, not me........

In John 15:1-6 Jesus says He is the Vine and we are the branches....

Yes, but now you are mixing metaphors. One metaphor is of a vine, the other is an olive tree. You need to keep the metaphors separate, as they are used to communicate different truths. The olive tree is not Jesus, and is not ever identified as Jesus, whereas Jesus clearly identifies himself as a vine. Jesus, however was dealing with different subject matter and the vine metaphor accurately illustrates the point He was making. Jesus was illustrating our relationship with Him as our source of supply for all that we need with respect to living and operating for Him in the Kingdom. Paul is illustrating the relationship between Israel and the Gentile believers.

Jesus is also the 'Firstfruit' and the 'Root'........

Olive trees produces olive 'oil'........

http://www.heraldmag.org/2005/05so_2.htm

Oil:

[Guest shiloh357]

My intent is not to debate with you........The only thing debating you accomplishes is; any one who disagrees with your(one of several), dispensation of hermenutics, is have my intelligents,my motives and my Chist-likeness attacked and judged, by you.....This is so typical of you, as shown below...............

Your motives are suspect when you blantantly accuse me of saying that Jews get a free pass to heaven just because they are Jews. You responded to me claiming to reject an idea that I did not espouse. I asked you to copy and paste where I ever said such a thing, or retract the accusation. You did not do either as requested.

I did not attack your motives on the ground that you disagreed with me. I simply noted the lack of Christ-like integrity exhibted by you in attributing to false statements to me in effect, bearing false witness. What is typical in this debate is you thinking you can act ugly toward another person and then pretending that you are being "persecuted" when your unChrist-like behavior is pointed out. It demonstrates the pride in your heart.

I

do not as you falsely accuse me, say that the Jewish seeds according to the flesh are not Abraham seeds........What I said was that Jesus said that just because those Jesus haters in John 8, were seeds, it did not mean that they were Abraham's CHILDREN.....A servant does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever....... You fail to even acknowledge the difference between 'seed'v.'children' or 'servant'v. 'son'.........Galaitians 4:1-7

I have not and will not make broad statements about all Jews not being children of Abraham and God...as you falsely accuse me of doing..repeatedly........I am not so blind that I cannot see the clear distinction in scriptures....

Well, you have a problem here. "Seed," as used to refer to offspring means "Children." You cannot be the seed of Abraham and not be a "child" of Abraham. The Bible nowhere, including Galatians makes this fake "distinction" you are trying to conjure up. "seed," "children" "son" all mean the same thing. For the purposes that God has in the Word with respect to the Jewish people's relationship to Abraham, those terms are simply three ways of making the same reference.

Furthermore, I don't see the point you are making with reference to Gal. 4;1-7 When Paul says in v. 7, "wherefore, thou art no longer a servant, but a son," he is refering to the servitude of sin. We are no longer a servant of sin, but a child of God. There is no way to compare that passage to some fake distinction between "seed" and "child."

Talk about false witnessing!!! As I said above, I am not the one making broad statements about Jews..This is a false label you are pinning on me to make me look like a Jew hating racist....Pure slander....I do not hate anyone..

I am not in a position to reject or cast off anyone.......God is the one who casts off those who reject his Son....and He alone knows those who belong to Christ........

Actually your posting history speaks for itself, and my assessment of your position is wholly accurate. I have not slandered you at all. The truth is that you reject the Jewish people as God's chosen people. You reject them as the seed of Abraham, and no linquistic gymnastics on this messageboard is going to be able to camoflage that.

I do not see how you can say I am treating anyone like dirt....If claiming what the Bible says about ALL those who reject the Son of God, is true/truth..................

You know what nana, you can be absolutely correct on an issue but be completely incorrect in how you present it.

If I were a Jewish ubeliever (like I was once), your attitude would only reinforce why I would continue reject Christ. Your attitude drips with pride and arrogance, and will do more to keep not only Jews, but just about any other sinner out of the Kingdom as well. No one would receive such a message delivered with haughtiness and pride you demonstrate.

God saves!! Not people....We are all responsible for our own relationships with God and answering Him when He calls....

We are also responsible for how we present the truth. If we present the truth like a bull in a china shop, and in a manner that actually hinders evangelism, don't think for one minute that you won't give an account.

Duhhhhhhh...I never said He was speaking to the Jews a whole....That was you false witnessing against me again.....He was talking to the Jews who were hating,denying who He was, and rejecting Him....and is talking about Jews/Gentiles who who hate,deny who He is and reject Him to their last dying breath, from then to the end of the "Today is the Day of Salvation', era............

Yet your post never made that disctinction. It was not false witnessing. It was based strictly on what you said. And no, he was not talking about all Jews and Gentiles who deny him. He was speaking ONLY to His detractors among the Pharisees. You are trying to broaden the meaning. He was speaking to ONLY one group of people, and those were His sworn enemies, and not every person who ever did or would reject Him. Again, you are making a broad generalization that is unwarranted by the text.

I think it is a far stretch to say that John 8 only applies to the pharisees of His day.......

No, it is not a far stretch at all. You are the one wanting broaden the passage to include anyone who rejects Christ, but Christ NEVER called all unbelievers or even everyone who rejected him "children of the devil."

There are many other scriptures that speak of Christ's enemies........It is not just based on race, or leadership positions either.......If you think that by Jesus telling people that their father is the devil...was irresponsible and counter-productive and would make someone unwilling or open to hearing the gospel..Take it up with Him.......He said it, not me........

Yes Jesus said, and He had right to. YOU DO NOT. When you are suddenly, sinless and Divine, then you will have the right to examine people's hearts and call them whatever you want. Until then, it is irressponsible and counter-productive where evangelism is concerned to go around spouting off such nonsense. Jesus reserved His critcisms for a select group among the religious leaders. He was not establishing a doctrine, and certainly did not commission anyone else go around calling other people "children of the devil."

Here you seem to brake your own hermenutic rules...In order for it to fit into your Dispensational Hermenutic veiws.......

No, I have not violated one rule of hermenuetics. Everything I have presented is hermenuetically sound, and I defy you to demonstrate otherwise. Frankly, you demonstrate NO knolwedge of hermenuetics, and therefore, are really not in a position to know if any rules have been broken.

[Giaour]

Since all of creation came from Adam and Eve, and then Noah, wouldnt that make every single person alive, part Jewish?

No

I was serious, but thanks for laughing in my face.

Giaour, the reason I laugh is that you and I have discussed this before, and I have answered your questions and you received my answer (or so you said), and now you pose the question again, as if you don't really know. So I am kind of taken aback that you would ask such silly question. I am musing at the time I wasted a few months ago, staying up late trying to patiently explain all of this. So yeah, I have to laugh at such nonsense coming from someone who said they supposedly "learned" so much.

I never completely understood. I still had questions that went unanswered. The only silly question is the one that goes unasked. I did learn a lot and I thanked you for your time and patience. But that doesnt mean that it is all crystal clear to me now. I learn daily. So please dont laugh at me when I ask a question. Even if I've been answered a hundred times. I'm gonna keep asking until the light bulb goes off.

[Guest shiloh357]

Since all of creation came from Adam and Eve, and then Noah, wouldnt that make every single person alive, part Jewish?

No

I was serious, but thanks for laughing in my face.

Giaour, the reason I laugh is that you and I have discussed this before, and I have answered your questions and you received my answer (or so you said), and now you pose the question again, as if you don't really know. So I am kind of taken aback that you would ask such silly question. I am musing at the time I wasted a few months ago, staying up late trying to patiently explain all of this. So yeah, I have to laugh at such nonsense coming from someone who said they supposedly "learned" so much.

I never completely understood. I still had questions that went unanswered. The only silly question is the one that goes unasked. I did learn a lot and I thanked you for your time and patience. But that doesnt mean that it is all crystal clear to me now. I learn daily. So please dont laugh at me when I ask a question. Even if I've been answered a hundred times. I'm gonna keep asking until the light bulb goes off.

Gia,

The Bible is very simple with respect to Israel. In fact, the Bible is so simple with respect to Israel, the Church has needed help to misunderstand it.

The New Testament uses the term "Israel" 71 times. Of those 71 times, it is used Replacement Theologians (the ones who think that God created another "Israel" to replace biblical Israel), have only 4 verses out of those 71 that they can use to form their doctrine. The remaining 67 times "Israel" is used, make it impossible to use in a theological discussion, particularly since most of them refer to Land of Israel or the physical nation of Israel or as in Rev. 21:12 it refers to the "twelve tribes of Israel" demonstrating as I stated before that "Israel" and "Jacob" ALWAYS refer to the physical desendents of Abraham via Isaac and Jacob, and are NEVER used to refer to born again Gentiles, to the exclusion of unsaved Jews.

One of the chief weaknesses of the notion that the Church is the "true Israel" is that the replacement camp cannnot come up with one passage where God ever equates Jacob or the twelve tribes with the Church. The Church is never called, "Judah." The Church is never called jacob. The Church is never referred to as the "twelve tribes." No connection is ever made symbolically, typologically between the twelve tribes of Jacob/Israel and the Church. The belief that Christians comprise the true Israel or that Israel/Jew ever refers to anyone outside the lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Jacb fails on that point. The terms "Israel," "Jacob," "Jew," "Judah" never appear in Scripture in any context outside of the earthly nation of Israel.

Therefore, it is incorrect to say that everyone is Jewish on the grounds that we all came from Adam and Eve.

[nebula]

"Jews" were what the people of the nation of Judah were called by the Babylonians. The term stuck even after the Jews returned to the land of Israel, and it even then extended to children from the other tribes of Israel, not just Judah, Benjamin and Levi. Anna, the prophetess in the Temple who recognized Jesus as a baby to be the Messiah, was of the tribe of Asher - an indication that there were descendants of the other tribes back in Israel during those days. But they were all called "Jews" by then, rather than Israelites.

So, the answer is "no" because Jews are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel).

[Giaour]

Yes I did Katy and I thank you.

Simple is good. I actually DID understand it a bit more when you explained it that way.

I'm not talking about replacement theology, which people seem to say a lot.

I am not talking about the church replacing anyone.

Since ALL mankind were of two people, are we not all bloodline related?

What were the people in abrahams bloodline called before they were called Jews?

[apothanein kerdos]

Since all of creation came from Adam and Eve, and then Noah, wouldnt that make every single person alive, part Jewish?

No

I was serious, but thanks for laughing in my face.

Giaour, the reason I laugh is that you and I have discussed this before, and I have answered your questions and you received my answer (or so you said), and now you pose the question again, as if you don't really know. So I am kind of taken aback that you would ask such silly question. I am musing at the time I wasted a few months ago, staying up late trying to patiently explain all of this. So yeah, I have to laugh at such nonsense coming from someone who said they supposedly "learned" so much.

I never completely understood. I still had questions that went unanswered. The only silly question is the one that goes unasked. I did learn a lot and I thanked you for your time and patience. But that doesnt mean that it is all crystal clear to me now. I learn daily. So please dont laugh at me when I ask a question. Even if I've been answered a hundred times. I'm gonna keep asking until the light bulb goes off.

Gia,

The Bible is very simple with respect to Israel. In fact, the Bible is so simple with respect to Israel, the Church has needed help to misunderstand it.

The New Testament uses the term "Israel" 71 times. Of those 71 times, it is used Replacement Theologians (the ones who think that God created another "Israel" to replace biblical Israel), have only 4 verses out of those 71 that they can use to form their doctrine. The remaining 67 times "Israel" is used, make it impossible to use in a theological discussion, particularly since most of them refer to Land of Israel or the physical nation of Israel or as in Rev. 21:12 it refers to the "twelve tribes of Israel" demonstrating as I stated before that "Israel" and "Jacob" ALWAYS refer to the physical desendents of Abraham via Isaac and Jacob, and are NEVER used to refer to born again Gentiles, to the exclusion of unsaved Jews.

One of the chief weaknesses of the notion that the Church is the "true Israel" is that the replacement camp cannnot come up with one passage where God ever equates Jacob or the twelve tribes with the Church. The Church is never called, "Judah." The Church is never called jacob. The Church is never referred to as the "twelve tribes." No connection is ever made symbolically, typologically between the twelve tribes of Jacob/Israel and the Church. The belief that Christians comprise the true Israel or that Israel/Jew ever refers to anyone outside the lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Jacb fails on that point. The terms "Israel," "Jacob," "Jew," "Judah" never appear in Scripture in any context outside of the earthly nation of Israel.

Therefore, it is incorrect to say that everyone is Jewish on the grounds that we all came from Adam and Eve.

That's a pretty easy to understand explanation for those that don't approach the question with an agenda.